Recovering from Zero Stamina



  • Regain 30 stamina on special dazed [when blocking out of stamina]

    So instead of promoting stamina management, now spammers get a safety net? This is ridiculous.If you run out of stamina in combat you should be finished, not get a chance to come back and win like last stand in CoD. How does it even make sense? Do I somehow drink a red bull after the initial daze? Please get rid of it.



  • Even though this new thing has saved my ass a few times, I agree with OP. You shouldn’t get magic stamina out of thin air…



  • @Slaughtervomit:

    Even though this new thing has saved my ass a few times, I agree with OP. You shouldn’t get magic stamina out of thin air…

    Very true, it’s like slapping a bandage a gaping stomach rip and suddenly being completely healed.



  • Well that explains how some people can just swing in the air all day and seem to not run out of stamina… Def agree that it’s not good, some of my strats (mainly poking shield users with the spear) rely on draining their stamina until I can just poke them to death, though 30 stam isn’t that much, so I don’t know. Is the recharge one-time or every time you get dazed?



  • I think this is to prevent people without stamina from getting special dazed stunlocked until they die. If you can’t kill them during one special daze, you don’t deserve a second or third.



  • @Bulzeeb:

    30 stam isn’t that much, so I don’t know.

    It’s enough to kill someone.

    @Bulzeeb:

    Is the recharge one-time or every time you get dazed?

    Probably every time. Either way it doesn’t make sense that as soon as I go into 0 stamina daze I regain 30 stamina instantly.



  • You used to be able to let an overly aggression person run themselves out of stam, and then just finish them off.

    Its not as easy to do, anymore because of this.

    Even with zero stam you could always attack.



  • Keep in mind that they need to block or parry to get that 30 stamina. Also keep in mind that they need to enter that dazed state when they receive that stamina. It’s almost a free hit on them and might as well be if you’re MAA.

    If your definition of “spammer” is the same as mine, this change is actually a DISADVANTAGE for them rather than a safety net, because they’re not guarding anyway so they won’t get that 30 stamina. And if they did parry, you get to punish them for it.

    I really don’t see a problem here.



  • When you’re out of stamina and block now, you become dazed and cannot block again - the enemy will be able to attack you while you’re helplessly stunned. Before, you could just keep blocking continuously and potentially stay alive but unable to do anything but block for a long time unless the enemy made a mistake. The stamina recovery was added as a way to compensate for the new special daze so being out of stamina wasn’t an instant death sentence while also not being a needless stall.



  • I’m sorry sly, but I just don’t see how you can defend this. You should avoid running out of stamina in the first place. One of the maul’s good features is that it drains a lot of stamina if it’s blocked, if the person they’re fighting gets 30 stamina when they become dazed what is the point?



  • @MrRedshark:

    I’m sorry sly, but I just don’t see how you can defend this. You should avoid running out of stamina in the first place. One of the maul’s good features is that it drains a lot of stamina if it’s blocked, if the person they’re fighting gets 30 stamina when they become dazed what is the point?

    The point is that the maul is extremely easy to block or interrupt. Now if you manage to drain all of the player’s stamina, you get to hit them for free while they are unable to block or attack you due to the new special daze. However, that would obviously be far too powerful on its own - thus the stamina recovery so you can’t just do it repeatedly.



  • @Genocide:

    Regain 30 stamina on special dazed [when blocking out of stamina]

    So instead of promoting stamina management, now spammers get a safety net? This is ridiculous.If you run out of stamina in combat you should be finished, not get a chance to come back and win like last stand in CoD. How does it even make sense? Do I somehow drink a red bull after the initial daze? Please get rid of it.

    I think it’s one of the best changes in patch. It punish you for running out of stamina by stun (which mostly results in free hit) much better than prepatch. Mind that without that 30 stamina bonus you could just perma stun someone and that wouldn’t be balanced at all.



  • With the Maul, you can cause your opponent to get dazed pretty easily after the first one due to its high stamina drain, so the Maul already serve as a very good stamina drain, an endurance fight .Versus the Maul will pretty much end up with you getting completely drained of stamina and screwed over.



  • @rumpelstiltskin:

    @Genocide:

    Regain 30 stamina on special dazed [when blocking out of stamina]

    So instead of promoting stamina management, now spammers get a safety net? This is ridiculous.If you run out of stamina in combat you should be finished, not get a chance to come back and win like last stand in CoD. How does it even make sense? Do I somehow drink a red bull after the initial daze? Please get rid of it.

    I think it’s one of the best changes in patch. It punish you for running out of stamina by stun (which mostly results in free hit) much better than prepatch. Mind that without that 30 stamina bonus you could just perma stun someone and that wouldn’t be balanced at all.

    But…the defending player got themselves into a position where they ran out of stamina. It rewards stamina conservation and lulls in prolonged fights. I kind of understand that gifting a weary player free stamina gives them a fighting chance, but it breaks the gameplay design (i.e. it is an “anti-fun” mechanic), punishing the attacking player.

    An exhausted player can still use footwork and attack, and they have to do that wisely to regain some stamina (which doesn’t take that long).

    Giving a battered player a second wind ability upon being stunned means that a knight can easily sucker-punch an MAA.



  • I like the new system. Before, once you drained all of an enemy’s stamina, you had to keep hitting him, sometimes over a ridiculously long time, until you hit him when his stamina was exactly 0 - only then his block/parry would fail and then you would get a hit in.
    The moment you hit him he started gaining stamina and could counterattack or effectively block again. Same would happen if you missed only once during the “bash the exhausted guy around till his parry fails” - phase. He would immediately get some stamina back, just enough so he could continue his blocking routine again or even counterattack.

    Now, when your opponent is exhausted, you get the daze and the one free hit you earned - which can be extremely effective with weapons like the Grand Mace, the Maul and the Warhammer. The end result is the same as before, but you skip the tedious repeated bashing phase in favor of one clear shot - however, if you screw this one up, your enemy is ready to battle again, at least to some extend. Which could happen with the old system as well, but even before you got your free shot - especially if you accidently knocked your opponent out of reach.
    Now you can punish your opponent instantly for his mismanagement while knowing where he is at stamina-wise after the daze instead of having to guess how much stamina he regenerated in the two seconds you weren’t pounding at him.

    The new system is a good idea and rewards stamina management even better than the old one. It skips the needles bashing down phase and makes it very clear when you can get your hit in. So we should stick with it.



  • The point is running out of stamina is no longer an instant death sentence, because you have to parry till you die/help comes around, as a good opponent will not let you gain any stamina again. Now you get punished for running out of stamina (daze is a free hit), but then you may fight back again. Before the patch out of stamina=game over. Now: bad, but not game over (as it should be).

    I think this is a good change.



  • I agree with the change, since it provides much better gameplay than before (even if the idea of “magical” stamina boost seems weird…as Hadron said, fun > realism)



  • @NUsensei:

    An exhausted player can still use footwork and attack, and they have to do that wisely to regain some stamina (which doesn’t take that long).

    Actually they can’t. Last patch you were dazed (unable to move or attack) for long enough after blocking out of stamina that any weapon would be able to attack you again. Thus, you could never avoid the next incoming blow or throw an attack of your own. However, you could still block no matter what - so you could essentially just turtle against incoming attacks forever, being repeatedly dazed but taking no damage until you missed a block. The only chance you ever had of breaking this cycle was by throwing a desperate attack in the hopes that your opponent would expect you to keep blocking and try a feint, or by turtling long enough for an ally to show up.

    That prolonged fights too much and was just not an enjoyable experience for either player. So now combat will be forcibly resolved if you can run a player out of stamina, by giving them a longer dazed time and making them unable to block while dazed, meaning they have to take the hit - but at the same time they gain some stamina (not much, mind you - 30 is just enough that you will take 2 blocks to be dazed instead of 1) to give them a chance of recovering. With how few hits it takes to kill with just about every weapon, that small stamina boost isn’t going to increasing the length of a fight by much.



  • What if weapons didn’t bounce off of no-stamina blocks? The new daze is long, but often not long enough if you’re using a two-handed weapon. If you could continue comboing you would be guaranteed to get that free hit.

    Maybe I’m the only one who can’t pull it off. Earlier I repeatedly dazed a buckler MAA who was always back up in time to block my billhook, and eventually I ran out of stamina myself which he took advantage of immediately. Pretty embarassing.



  • I agree with this change.

    Having some sort of punishment for running out of stamina is necessary, else stamina would be kind of a no-brainer. I don’t, however, think it should result in instant death(depending on weapon/class), but it should leave you with a disadvantage, which this change justifies very well, in my opinion. Just like turtling blocks shouldn’t be rewarded, neither should turtling hits. In my experience, I can spot a turtle-blocker after about 5 seconds in combat with them, and after that, it’s more than often incredibly easy to make them fall for a feint. So, in a way, I think this change kind of promotes feinting, which is awesome!

    If you wanna look at it from a “realistic” point of view, on how you regain that free stamina after being dazed; while being dazed, you’re idling, kind of just standing around, and you can actually hear when someone’s out of stamina, because they try to catch their breath. That’s how you would regain stamina in any case - standing around, or crouching for increases rate.

    Good job, devs!


Log in to reply