Citadel 1st map balance



  • Hello, I open this thread because I see that this map is very unbalanced for agatha.
    -Spawn is far, about 30s to reach the goal (without meeting enemies).
    -The spawn enemy is near to the ballesta.
    -The masons can use the ballesta and put it facing the opposite side (only to flip 5s required minimum, enough for 3 or 4 Masons come to defend).
    -The wall requires many blows to achieve the objective.

    In this map agatha has no advantage, the advantage are all Masons, with all be up and won.

    I hope to review this map, because it is impossible to meet the target. I understand that a good team can do, but in a public server is hard.



  • What I think needs to be done.



  • But after the first stage it is pretty easy. I don’t think it is even possible to defend Malric- he doesn’t have the long narrow corridor suitable for archer spam defending like some Agathian kings do.

    I think the first stage needs to me made easier but the last stage needs to be made harder.

    So yes, closer spawn for Agatha on the first stage with less ballista hits needed to take down the wall. And for the last stage, further away spawn for Agatha (because literally outside the door is a tad close) and a reduction on the timer.



  • Yeah i’m scratching my head about the citadel design as well, objectives should (if anything) get progressively harder to achieve.

    In Citadel the first one looks and feels very tough (somehow accomplished more often than not though in my experience on publics) and if you have a team strong enough to do it the following is just a stomping of the defenders.



  • I have been in one match, of about 5 or 6, that passed the first stage of the map. The spawn location for defenders is completely ridiculous, the only way the objective could be more unfair is if they placed the ballista in the mason spawn points. After that, the caged slaves was very balanced, it took my team a decent amount of time to break the locks. The second wave of slave freeing was much easier, almost too easy. The shackles need to take a hit or two more to do the job on that one. Breaking down the door nearly stopped us, I don’t think that portion is in need of too much of a change. Finally, Malric was easy, but not terribly so. The run to him was much shorter than to the Agatha king, and that made it much easier to kill him, but compared to other parts of the stage it was more balanced.

    I really think that the map would be improved if they took some of the spare difficulty from the first objective and gave it to the second slave objective. Possibly make the run to Malric a bit longer, start at the bottom of his stairs instead of just outside the door maybe.



  • @Eskalja:

    I have been in one match, of about 5 or 6, that passed the first stage of the map. The spawn location for defenders is completely ridiculous, the only way the objective could be more unfair is if they placed the ballista in the mason spawn points. After that, the caged slaves was very balanced, it took my team a decent amount of time to break the locks. The second wave of slave freeing was much easier, almost too easy. The shackles need to take a hit or two more to do the job on that one. Breaking down the door nearly stopped us, I don’t think that portion is in need of too much of a change. Finally, Malric was easy, but not terribly so. The run to him was much shorter than to the Agatha king, and that made it much easier to kill him, but compared to other parts of the stage it was more balanced.

    I really think that the map would be improved if they took some of the spare difficulty from the first objective and gave it to the second slave objective. Possibly make the run to Malric a bit longer, start at the bottom of his stairs instead of just outside the door maybe.

    I’ve played about 12 games of Citadel, with about 9 on Agatha and 3 or so on Mason. If the Agathian’s are fast enough, they can steamroll on through after destroying the palisade and it makes it very difficult to defend each of the cages. Perhaps some sort of destructible barricades in front of the doors that lead into the cage chambers, just to slow the Agathian’s down and force them to chop their way through so it can give the Mason’s a bit of time to regroup.

    The chained slaves is much too difficult for Mason’s to defend, the area they must cover is simply too large. Either make it so you must free EVERY single chained slave before you progress to next stage or redesign where the slave spots are. Instead of spreading them out over that huge area, simply make a few clumps of slaves. Think of them as Trebuchet positions on Hillside but instead of siege engines, you have slave area positions and to “capture a slave position” you have to free the clump of slaves in that area. Also make the chains take more than one hit, that is a good idea.

    Breaking the throneroom doors is fine as it is, very defensible and it has almost always held up Agathian’s for close to 5-7 minutes each time I’ve played.

    Kill Lord Malric definitely needs some work. You spawn way too close to the spawn room, I agree that you should at least spawn at the bottom of the stairs or maybe inside the previous Mason spawn room area. Remove the far far back stairway that leads up the back to the throne. There shouldn’t be a way for you to “sneak” up on the King, they should have to fight him head on and break through the defenders much like Stonehill.

    The layout of the throneroom staircase is also more in favour of Agatha again. Too many staircases leads to too many alternative routes to take. While they all spill out into the area where the throne itself is located, it still gives too many routes for Agatha to get to the King. That, or make the area atop the stairs much smaller and more defensible (make the handrails not broken at the top of the stairs and make it so the Agathian’s have to funnel into a small gaps to be able to get to the king.


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