The point of Horizontal Swings?



  • Firstly, this isn’t a complaint about it, nor is it a call to change. Just want to hear the community’s opinion.

    I find slashes to be the most useless attack in the game. I feel so clumsy and open to attack when I do slashes, and in fact typically end up dead when trying it. It would not be an exaggeration to say that in my 120 hours of gameplay, I’ve yet to use over 50 slashes(Of course, that may very well be why I feel they’re so awkward?) A few weeks ago, someone made a topic about removing slashes which at first thought it was silly and I did not want to reduce the number of attacks in the game, but then I came to realize that if slashes WERE removed I wouldn’t be effected by it at all…

    I mean sure they have the widest arc, making them the easiest to connect with. But because of that very arc, the thing that they connect with is typically the opponent’s blade(or your teammates lolol). Easiest to hit with, easiest to parry. I guess you can use it if you get surrounded by enemies, but all it takes is for one person to come in to parry it, and all the rest are saved. The only times I feel slashes are useful is to fool people by getting them in the backswing, but that doesn’t work against higher skilled players.

    Now consider the Overhead. It tends to be just as fast if not faster than the horizontal slash. Taken to an extreme when lookdown is is utilized. And it almost always does more damage. Lastly, overheads have a very high probability of being a headshots(from my experience) whether intentional or not.

    Stabs? They’re a bit harder to land, do substantially less damage, and have long windups, but they’re also the most difficult to block, especially when done at odd angles. Heck, even the long windups can be used to your advantage because it makes them harder to read. And let’s not even talk about feints(Seriously. Let’s not.)

    So yeah, what exactly is the point of Slashes?



  • slashes used with things other then blades or the bardiche I found to be pretty useless.

    I play a VG with Claymore and slashes with sword dancing is my main way of racking up kills and saving my ass in 3vs1 situation hell of a lot of times. 4vs1 i usually take down 2 before I die, lol, so please no, don’t nerf my slashes :(



  • Fighting multiple enemies, getting hits in past defenses at close range and catching MAAs and other dodgy enemies. Sure, you can do the latter with any attack, but I can’t pull it off reliably without my trusty LMB so I prefer to play it safe. Might have to get used to a higher sensitivity.



  • Slashing with side step is an easy way to get around shields, not that we can attack from from th left or theright, we can side step in either direction.



  • Slash is useful for

    • getting around shields
    • delayed or sped up attacks
    • group combat
    • covering ground/creating and keeping distance
    • keeping dodgy enemies inside your attack hitbox
    • forcing an enemy in a certain direction
    • getting the tip of the weapon out of your enemy’s field of view
    • different animations and timings to throw your opponent’s timing off, especially with feint

    etc.

    Yes, you can do fine without using them, by they are very far from being useless. Removing the horizontal attack would hurt this game in so many ways.



  • I find slash very useful on either fast or slow weapons. For quick weapons, slash is the easiest way to bypass a block. Flanged mace and hatchet are probably the most infamous weapons for doing this. Now that there are alternate swings, the hatchet at point blank range is really terrifying in the right hands - to block it before, you basically had to always be looking at the direction the slash is coming from in advance. Now you don’t know which direction that is.

    The Zweihander is probably the best example of how slash can be useful for a slow weapon - its release time is longer than the time a parry is active, so if a player blocks at the very start of your release you can drag the attack around to hit at the very end of release, thus bypassing their block. You can also do it with an overhead but it’s generally much harder to judge, and as you’re looking up you won’t be able to see your opponent and thus won’t be able to adjust your aim if they move.



  • @SlyGoat:

    The Zweihander is probably the best example of how slash can be useful for a slow weapon - its release time is longer than the time a parry is active, so if a player blocks at the very start of your release you can drag the attack around to hit at the very end of release, thus bypassing their block.

    As a zwei vanguard this is what it comes down to for me. If I get someone constantly blocking you can swing far out and drag into your opponent after his block is down because of how slow it is. It’s a nice bit of deception.



  • Slashes are great for Mason on the map Ruins in TDM. Stay in one of the spawn houses and kill several archers the same instant they spawn. :berz:



  • It’s good for the noobs. I mean seriously (I’m like the biggest slash-opponent living on the planet earth) all I see people do, is slash (maybe block if they’re not completely droiling mongoloids) and funniest thing is: They’re so much more effective with senseless slashing than with well-thought strikes.

    The game is noobfriendly which isn’t bad, I mean not everyone is a highskilled core gamer who spends his last free minutes on the PC.
    But I can only imagine two scenarios where I’m getting killed:

    1. Vs a high(er) skilled player in a duel (not necessarily duel-mode)
    2. Getting ganged by several slashers

    One slasher is pretty easy to defeat. But the difficulty curve jumps up pretty fast when you add 1 or 2 more slashers. Then you’re basically fucked.

    I have to agree though with slow weapons. As Knight with the Grand Mace is mostly overhead but also like to swing my weapon into an opponents face. It makes actually sense here since the weapon is so slow. I barely stab with it.

    What in the opposite one thing is I DON’T LIKE, are those face-hugging Slash-at-Arms. That’s how I call them.
    Just imagine you’re standing like body-to-body to your enemy. Ever though about even getting your arms like into movement without being handicapped by the contact? (no homo)
    The only thing you see, is an extremely angry, ugly face doing sounds like “YA!”, HYA!", HYAAA!" and then you’re dead with NO chance of blocking, countering, kicking whatsoever.

    Another thing, a lil bit offtopic is that the MAA overhead is more like a stab with more power. The Dane Axe is so overpowered due to its length, speed and damage. Overhead has almost more reach than a stab and almost 1 hits you as Vanguard. Don’t like it. :P



  • Pretty much the only thing to get a facehugging MAA spammer. Since he can move so fast, your swing allows you to more easily hit him.



  • I actually have a similar opinion as the OP. I have never used slashes past my first week of playing this game. Everything that they do can be done better or faster with an overhead or a stab.
    Except maybe if you want to get past a shielder and you are a knight, because that is the only one too slow for footwork.

    I think most of my kills are actually stabs initiated when the opponents slash is already under way. Due to its travel time the direct stab is always faster than the slash (since it first have to travel from the side) and hurt opponents are always defeated this way.
    If you add footwork this can even be done against healthy opponents, most swings can simply be outrun by walking past someone and turn your stab in his back. Always works.

    Even with maa slashing away it works, except when they facehug exceptionally well (which few do).
    Even against multiple enemies I mainly use a stab and it works far better than a slash which simply gets blocked or takes too long to connect.



  • @TheUndying:

    It’s good for the noobs. I mean seriously (I’m like the biggest slash-opponent living on the planet earth) all I see people do, is slash (maybe block if they’re not completely droiling mongoloids) and funniest thing is: They’re so much more effective with senseless slashing than with well-thought strikes.

    The game is noobfriendly which isn’t bad, I mean not everyone is a highskilled core gamer who spends his last free minutes on the PC.
    But I can only imagine two scenarios where I’m getting killed:

    1. Vs a high(er) skilled player in a duel (not necessarily duel-mode)
    2. Getting ganged by several slashers

    One slasher is pretty easy to defeat. But the difficulty curve jumps up pretty fast when you add 1 or 2 more slashers. Then you’re basically fucked.

    I have to agree though with slow weapons. As Knight with the Grand Mace is mostly overhead but also like to swing my weapon into an opponents face. It makes actually sense here since the weapon is so slow. I barely stab with it.

    What in the opposite one thing is I DON’T LIKE, are those face-hugging Slash-at-Arms. That’s how I call them.
    Just imagine you’re standing like body-to-body to your enemy. Ever though about even getting your arms like into movement without being handicapped by the contact? (no homo)
    The only thing you see, is an extremely angry, ugly face doing sounds like “YA!”, HYA!", HYAAA!" and then you’re dead with NO chance of blocking, countering, kicking whatsoever.

    Another thing, a lil bit offtopic is that the MAA overhead is more like a stab with more power. The Dane Axe is so overpowered due to its length, speed and damage. Overhead has almost more reach than a stab and almost 1 hits you as Vanguard. Don’t like it. :P

    M1 spammers are annoying, but their tactic is completely viable and fair game. MAA need to get close and overpower slower classes because they’ll get dominated if you control the spacing. I’m pretty sure that in real life many people have met their ends with the last thing they see being an ugly face doing sounds like “YA!, HYA!” cutting them into ribbons



  • @BreadBoy:

    @TheUndying:

    It’s good for the noobs. I mean seriously (I’m like the biggest slash-opponent living on the planet earth) all I see people do, is slash (maybe block if they’re not completely droiling mongoloids) and funniest thing is: They’re so much more effective with senseless slashing than with well-thought strikes.

    The game is noobfriendly which isn’t bad, I mean not everyone is a highskilled core gamer who spends his last free minutes on the PC.
    But I can only imagine two scenarios where I’m getting killed:

    1. Vs a high(er) skilled player in a duel (not necessarily duel-mode)
    2. Getting ganged by several slashers

    One slasher is pretty easy to defeat. But the difficulty curve jumps up pretty fast when you add 1 or 2 more slashers. Then you’re basically fucked.

    I have to agree though with slow weapons. As Knight with the Grand Mace is mostly overhead but also like to swing my weapon into an opponents face. It makes actually sense here since the weapon is so slow. I barely stab with it.

    What in the opposite one thing is I DON’T LIKE, are those face-hugging Slash-at-Arms. That’s how I call them.
    Just imagine you’re standing like body-to-body to your enemy. Ever though about even getting your arms like into movement without being handicapped by the contact? (no homo)
    The only thing you see, is an extremely angry, ugly face doing sounds like “YA!”, HYA!", HYAAA!" and then you’re dead with NO chance of blocking, countering, kicking whatsoever.

    Another thing, a lil bit offtopic is that the MAA overhead is more like a stab with more power. The Dane Axe is so overpowered due to its length, speed and damage. Overhead has almost more reach than a stab and almost 1 hits you as Vanguard. Don’t like it. :P

    M1 spammers are annoying, but their tactic is completely viable and fair game. MAA need to get close and overpower slower classes because they’ll get dominated if you control the spacing. I’m pretty sure that in real life many people have met their ends with the last thing they see being an ugly face doing sounds like “YA!, HYA!” cutting them into ribbons

    A fair point, never thought of it like that.



  • Now that you mention it…seems legit.

    I wouldn’t even call it fair, it’s just lame since too easy. Slashes just do too much damage.
    But well, after the update, every weapon does too much damage. So nevermind. :D



  • @TheUndying:

    It’s good for the noobs. I mean seriously (I’m like the biggest slash-opponent living on the planet earth) all I see people do, is slash (maybe block if they’re not completely droiling mongoloids) and funniest thing is: They’re so much more effective with senseless slashing than with well-thought strikes.

    The game is noobfriendly which isn’t bad, I mean not everyone is a highskilled core gamer who spends his last free minutes on the PC.
    But I can only imagine two scenarios where I’m getting killed:

    1. Vs a high(er) skilled player in a duel (not necessarily duel-mode)
    2. Getting ganged by several slashers

    One slasher is pretty easy to defeat. But the difficulty curve jumps up pretty fast when you add 1 or 2 more slashers. Then you’re basically fucked.

    I have to agree though with slow weapons. As Knight with the Grand Mace is mostly overhead but also like to swing my weapon into an opponents face. It makes actually sense here since the weapon is so slow. I barely stab with it.

    What in the opposite one thing is I DON’T LIKE, are those face-hugging Slash-at-Arms. That’s how I call them.
    Just imagine you’re standing like body-to-body to your enemy. Ever though about even getting your arms like into movement without being handicapped by the contact? (no homo)
    The only thing you see, is an extremely angry, ugly face doing sounds like “YA!”, HYA!", HYAAA!" and then you’re dead with NO chance of blocking, countering, kicking whatsoever.

    Another thing, a lil bit offtopic is that the MAA overhead is more like a stab with more power. The Dane Axe is so overpowered due to its length, speed and damage. Overhead has almost more reach than a stab and almost 1 hits you as Vanguard. Don’t like it. :P

    I have exactly the same point of view (but we are not alone, most of my clan mates have the same feeling against slash).



  • As others have pointed out, slashes are good for:

    -Getting around shield block/parry
    -Dealing with multiple opponents
    -Swing dragging with the slower weapons
    -Catching side dodging MAAs
    -Area denial

    The vast majority of my kills come from thrust and overhead attacks, but there is definitely a purpose to the slash attack.



  • In my 3 hours playing the new patch I forgot they added an alternate swing. I haven’t even used it yet I keep dominating servers. Interesting lol.



  • @SlyGoat:

    The Zweihander is probably the best example of how slash can be useful for a slow weapon - its release time is longer than the time a parry is active, so if a player blocks at the very start of your release you can drag the attack around to hit at the very end of release, thus bypassing their block. You can also do it with an overhead but it’s generally much harder to judge, and as you’re looking up you won’t be able to see your opponent and thus won’t be able to adjust your aim if they move.

    Man…I can’t believe I’ve never tried this.

    See…tactics like this just support how unnecessary feints are in this game.

    To me, horizontal swings are more of a defensive move. Something you do when you are side stepping a person that is going for aggressive stabs or overheads. Also it’s the only way you’ll reliably hit more than one person at a time.


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