Flail is too weak/slow, should increase strength or speed

  • Coming from a big flail fan, my main class was knight in AOC, I loved that class, it was skillful and required accurate hitting. I understand that this game isn’t really based on penalizing spamming and misses with substantial stamina loss like AOC, but that’s not the point of this discussion.

    The two flails are just way too weak and also slow, there’s really no advantage of using a flail over a shielded warhammer or heck even secondary weapons. And claiming that it’s hard to block doesn’t really seem valid because the weapon itself isn’t even fast, it’s harder blocking a warhammer IMO. I also miss the 360, why was that not implemented?

    It would also be nice to be able to use other shields, I’m guessing some others are coming because there’s questions marks in the shield section when I select flail. The worst part is when often times I hit someone first but then end up exchanging blows, which makes it really hard because I can’t just exchange attacks with stronger weapons when I keep hitting them first.

    Also for the shield, it would be nice if I wasn’t able to attack while holding the block button, like having the attack buttons not over-ride the block button if held. That would be a nice option to at least to add in controllers. I guess it’s also a habit I got from tap blocking then swinging with knight from AOC, but I think it would be better if you’d only be able to attack if you release the block (with shield)

    I think the flails should either get a damage boost or speed boost. This is no way similar to the awesome flail from AOC unfortunately.

  • Bump.

    I don’t know why people aren’t really talking about this. For a new weapon, this thing is garbage and barely anyone uses it–for good reason too.

    It’s too slow, weak and has little range. At least increase its speed and range a little to make it more useful. Can anyone give me any reason to use the flail over say, the morning star and heater shield combo?

    And what’s this about the flail going around shields? It doesn’t do this any more than other weapons do…

  • yyyeeaaah. The flail is bogus. I keep hearing people say it’s hard to block, and yet, the very first time I saw it, I blocked it five times in a row, and this pattern continues even to this day. What about this weapon makes it hard to block? It doesn’t go around shields, it’s just as easy to read as any other weapon, and you have to use a nerfed shield with it, guaranteeing that other Knights with better weapons will own you.

    I wanted to like the flail so much, but it’s really, really bad. I’ve never seen someone good at using it, its supposed advantage of being hard to predict is nonexistent, and its disadvantages are significant – Buckler aside, it’s also a Knight primary with VERY short range and only middling damage. It’s essentially a secondary weapon that takes up the primary AND tertiary slots.

  • Okay guys, here is my take on it. I use a flail in real life in combat reenactment and it isn’t that slow, also we have to make them out of lighter and hollowed out material so they don’t hurt people bringing me to my point of them being too weak. I understand it’s a game but as a primary weapon they need a real buff, or a place in the secondary slots. It takes 3 hits sometimes on vangaurds and hitting anyone that many times with it as slow as it is is such a task. I hear a lot of people complaining about weapons being OP but this thing is horridly underpowered. Also it seems like the knight takes less hits when using the flail, and having that garbage shield with it doesn’t help it’s situation. I hope you actually see these comments and do have yourself a fine day.

  • Interestingly enough, the heavy flail can 2 hit a knight. It has a decent amount of range but yeah, they are so slow they are useless compared to the mace, and no real advantage over the warhammer. At least the warhammer has an uberfast alt-swing.

  • The Flails were decent in Beta Patch, but too many QQ’s from inexperienced who had not yet trained how to counter and just went on whining caused the Flail to get nerfed down to nothing, its very hard to use for a low reward. You are better off using a mace.

  • well it’s also sad when sometimes it would take 3 hits to kill an archer and well even vanguards would survive 2 hits. It really needs slight increase in damage or speed.

  • The flail was definitely my favorite weapon in AOC, and at this point I really don’t even see any point in using it. For one thing why can’t you use at least the kite shield with it. I don’t think anyone would argue that flail is better than war hammer. Yet with the flail you get shield nerfed…

  • So pretty much less damage, less length, less speed, and less options for shield. Really? I don’t understand the logic at all, maybe the only advantage is better recovery but that doesn’t matter when you exchange swings to stronger weapons and also am very disappointed that 360 got removed. You would think that using a shorter weapon makes it go faster compared to warhammer, but there’s really no tradeoff, it’s just downgrade in everything.

  • In the weapon description it says that the flail has the advantage of being the most unpredictable weapon.
    Except that it is not, at first it may confuse inexperienced players as to when the actual flail will hit given that it’s not a rigid weapon that swings with an arm animation, but after that it becomes waaay too predictable as it is too slow.

    When I first read the description I was under the impression that the windup/release time would be variable to some extent to simulate it’s unpredictability - unfortunately this isn’t how it works in game, it has specific windup, release times etc.

    Also buckler needs to drain less stamina on blocks and block less of the screen when raised or let flail be used with other shields.

  • I think the flail should have little wind-up and a fast attack. The thing is basically a whip with a metal ball at the end.

  • In Beta it was OP. Hundreds of complaints later they slowed it down I assume so it is easier to parry.

    I havent used it enough post patch to see where it is at now.

  • @gregcau:

    In Beta it was OP. Hundreds of complaints later they slowed it down I assume so it is easier to parry.

    I havent used it enough post patch to see where it is at now.

    Don’t bother ruining your K/D ratio. It’s totally useless compared to any other weapon.

  • I would like to say that flails are not too bad weapons…

    It takes quite a while to master but it is decent on my honest opinion.

    The 360 strike is not there like in AOC… but the flail has low aiming speed penalty when attacking… so its possible to do 180 degree swings.

    Its possible to attack shield users back… when you run pass them, while swiging at the same time and going around the guy with 180’degree swing.

    It took me 2 complete days to get hang of playing with flails… but it seems like no1 in here did the same effort.

  • I haven’t played with it since beta… but now that you mention it, no one else has either. It was freaking amazing in beta, you swung, hit, they died, lol. I personally did not have a hard time blocking it, no harder than some of the hatchets and blunt weapons, but I guess some people did…

    I don’t like using it because it’s not versatile, I prefer something with a stab and range.

  • I experimented with draw_tracers and you can infact do a 360 degree swing with the flail if you mouse-drag in the direction of the swing. I can’t see any way this could be useful considering the shit range, but I have also been able to go 10-0 in duel servers 2 times using flail and heavy flail. They’re pretty shit, but a good player can still kick ass with them. Polehammer needs more range as well.

  • Heavy flail’s strength should be buffed. Increasing it’s overhead blunt base damage from 70 to 85 would allow it to reliably two-shot vanguards and knights to the torso.
    This isn’t a bad idea considering that flails have the shortest range of all the knight primaries and the heavy flail has the second slowest swing times of all the knight primaries.

    As for the normal flail, I think the windup and combo speeds should get a notable buff to create a sufficient role gap between it and the heavy flail.
    Heavy flail focusing on high alpha damage while the normal flail focuses on speedy swings.

  • I find heavyflail good enough, its the buckler which lacks, you can literally hit or shoot right through middle of it. Have tested this with my mate, buckler is bugged badly

  • Well it would be nice to be able to do more than overhead, the shield bash is useless, what a shame that they penalize players who have played AOC and loved the knight and flail with a shield bash . I mean really? There’s only one powerful swing with the flail, unless you click spam overhead, which is what this game has become anyway. Double hit click spam, but still that shield bash should be replaced with a better swing. That’s a huge downgrade, from 360 to a weak shield bash that’s quite useless. It’s somewhat insulting to make such a fun class from AOC to this joke.

  • @Ludofin:

    I find heavyflail good enough,

    Except that it isn’t.
    As an example let us compare the slash and overheads of the warhammer and heavy flail, both are one-handed blunt weapons only available to knights and both can be used with shields.

    Heavy flail:
    _Slash attack - 65 Blunt Damage - 0.6s windup - 0.7s combo - 0.6s release - 0.7s recovery
    Overhead attack - 70 Blunt Damage - 0.6s windup - 0.7s combo - 0.6s release - 0.7s recovery
    Slash attack - 75 Blunt Damage - 0.45s windup - 0.6s combo - 0.5s release - 0.75s recovery
    Overhead attack - 80 Blunt Damage - 0.45s windup - 0.65s combo - 0.5s release - 0.75s recovery

    As you can see, the only thing the heavy flail is better at is a slightly faster release and 0.05s less recovery - this does not outweigh the significantly shorter reach, less damage, notably slower windup and slower combo speeds compared to warhammer.
    Lastly, flails cannot be used without a shield and you are forced to use the smallest of them all; the buckler.

    its the buckler which lacks, you can literally hit or shoot right through middle of it. Have tested this with my mate, buckler is bugged badly

    The buckler has a huge obstructive viewmodel in first person which is very frustrating considering it is the smallest shield in the game.

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