[MECH] How to defeat shields.



  • You hit jump, then very very quickly hit kick, so tap space then f. Not at the same time, but very quickly together.

    The reason for the jump is that it allows you to continue moving forward whilst you kick, makes it far easier to land and a little more surprising.

    edit:

    Im using vanguard with spear but cant get past their shields? HELP MEH!!!

    You may want to consider that the spear is a terrible weapon against a shield, perhaps switch to your fast, combo’able, secondary weapon and remember to use ‘alt’ attacks with feints to get around their shield



  • As he said. Jump can be useful to prevent them from getting out of range. But be careful, this can cause the kick headbox to glitch a bit or lead to you getting stuck in the air defenseless when pressed against your enemy’s character model.

    If you are the shield user, well, you need to adapt. Have your shield up only when necessary and as late as possible. Kick and bash are somewhat delayed or at least you can spot them earlier since the patch. If you see one coming, drop your shield. Then, you should always be able to raise your defense after the kick early enough to block. Beware of feint into kicks and consider that a raised shield limits your ability to spot and identify them correctly. If you get kicked with your shield up its similar to getting tricked into parrying by a feint… you screwed up and will be punished.

    Also, beware of flank attacks as the brief stun from even a regular kick can be used to circle you (as was already possible pre patch).

    On a side note: Any block or parry that causes you to run out of stamina will daze you just as much as a kick to the shield does, so watch out.



  • The bottom line is;

    With the current mechanics in play shields are very dangerous to use, keep that in mind when using them to help mitigate that danger.



  • I would agree with the jump kick solution as kick has its own rather limited range which allows enemy to predict whether you intend to initiate by strike or kick.



  • @Toll:

    I would very much like to hear peoples stratagies to deal with the kick against their shield. The MAA dodging backward is useful. That will at least prevent the hit, however the attacker will (should at least) chase you up for another hit.

    In way it may be better to take the hit on the chin and not put your shield up, you are stunned less time and can perhaps take them off guard expecting you to be stunned longer.

    Try to only block when necessary. Kick is expensive on stamina, slow, and has a relatively short range. People don’t use kick very often. Attempting to land a kick is risky, failing to land one can be catastrophic. This flying kick poses a problem, however, you should be focusing on hitting someone the moment they come within range, if they make a poor attempt at a kick when your already in follow through they are finished. So kicking is mainly a problem when you don’t see it coming.

    I’d say the weak point on shields is when you have your shield raised and people move around to your blind side/shield side, but it is their mistake when they keep moving into view on your weapon side luls.



  • As a counter to kicks that have been… well sorta hit and miss for me, is when I am kicked with my shield up, I crouch and look upward while trying to bring my shield up again… depending on their weapon speed, being lower to the ground (especially against an overhead) gives you that fraction of a second longer to get out of the stun and sometimes I can block the incoming attack at the last possible instance.

    Usually they will be on the offense after kicking you and stunning you… thus if you get the block in in time, give them a taste of their own medicine and kick them back with a thrust attack (faster attack)… then they start to panic, especially those pesky MAA’s and Archers who have lower health.

    But again, this crouch blocking tactic sometimes works and sometimes doesn’t.



  • @Cpt-Praxius:

    As a counter to kicks that have been… well sorta hit and miss for me, is when I am kicked with my shield up, I crouch and look upward while trying to bring my shield up again… depending on their weapon speed, being lower to the ground (especially against an overhead) gives you that fraction of a second longer to get out of the stun and sometimes I can block the incoming attack at the last possible instance.

    Usually they will be on the offense after kicking you and stunning you… thus if you get the block in in time, give them a taste of their own medicine and kick them back with a thrust attack (faster attack)… then they start to panic, especially those pesky MAA’s and Archers who have lower health.

    But again, this crouch blocking tactic sometimes works and sometimes doesn’t.

    I have seen people avoid the “free hit” after getting kicked in the shield by crouching. Of course it’s best to use an overhead to the head with your free hit for max damage but sometimes on uneven terrain simply crouching will be enough to avoid a hit. Of course what you’re suggesting is even better.



  • An update:

    For the past few weeks I’ve been using shields as a very effective counter to the rampart use of feints. So I’ve also had to learn how to avoid the dreaded kick and other things people do to try get past your shield.

    So I’ll add a couple of extra tricks besides a straight out jump-kick.

    1. Switch to a fast weapon. Use a stab attack with the intention of landing a hit, upon the hit landing, the enemy will bring up their shield. You should be following your stab up with a kick at this point and it will bash their shield. Step to your left whilst doing an overhead and get the free hit in, try hit their head. As soon as that hit lands move as much to your right as possible and use a stab, more often then not this will get around their shield. Usually after the stab, break off and prepare for the next wave.

    2. Whilst feints are not reliable to use to get your 1st real strike after a feint in against shield users they are still useful to get your enemy to bring up their block. So feint an obvious attack, overhead is usually good. Feint out and kick, they should have their shield up to block your laughably bad feint attempt and they will get kick, then follow up with above.

    3. As an addition to the above methods, and what I found very effective against me using a shield was to initiate an attack with the above methods, but instead of breaking off, cycle between a hit and kick. So hit them once, then kick them, hit, then kick, you must use a fast weapon for this. The idea is to overwhelm them with attacks. Be careful not to run out of stamina before you kill them.

    4. Remember, a shield user can feint you as easily as you can a non-shield user… Perhaps use a shield yourself.



  • You don’t have to use any special tactic. Just go facehug and stab while looking down at their feet. Your head clips through the shield and you literally stab through shields.



  • I prefer to use shields myself, but have recently been going to 2h weapons for a change up….

    … one thing I have noticed others doing against me while using a shield… which has yet to be mentioned in this thread (from what I can see) is this:

    When going up against a shield user, run at them with an M1 Slash attack which you then feint. As soon as the feint occurs continue your attack with an alt-slash attack from the opposite side.

    What this does to the majority of shield users is make them bring up their shield for the first swing attack that you feinted, then due to them turning to their left to block that, their right is exposed for the alt-slash.

    You can of course switch it around so it’s an alt-slash feinted followed by an M1 slash attack.

    I’ve been getting better at reacting to this attack as if you have the reflexes, it can be blocked… but if you’re not expecting it, it’s very difficult to react in time and you have much less time to react to this than you do with a kick.

    To help the shield users, if you can counter this attack, most who use it who fail at getting through your shield will follow up with a kick, so drop your shield and take the kick, then block the incoming attack following that.

    They will most likely be low on stamina by now and will either go back on the defensive, allowing you to go at them, or they will try and keep the pressure on, but can’t combo or kick, and a good hard blow from you will stun them, allowing for an easy hit on them.

    @boomandvibe:

    You don’t have to use any special tactic. Just go facehug and stab while looking down at their feet. Your head clips through the shield and you literally stab through shields.

    Yeah great idea… be up close to your enemy while looking down, exposing your back to any attack they give you (especially the more powerful overhead attacks) which you can’t parry or block properly, let alone see properly if you’re in 1st person.



  • @boomandvibe:

    You don’t have to use any special tactic. Just go facehug and stab while looking down at their feet. Your head clips through the shield and you literally stab through shields.

    Yep happens to me all the time in live, I don’t recall if this was fixed in Beta.



  • Don’t even have to look at their feet, for some reason, if you’re within kissing distance and they stab, no parry/block will stop the attack because the release of the weapon starts inside your body.



  • I am a huge Kite Shield user, and I have an enormous amount of success with it in duels. Since i’ve had my new mouse I’ve had aboout 200 wins and 40 losses, beating a several very experienced, decent players of all class types so I cant be all bad. I also feel no fear when I come up against shield users, so i feel I can advise a little.

    For me, chiv is all about learning the ranges of weapons and exploiting it. Im all about sticking just barely out of range of an attack, then committing to my own as they wind-down - n thats the best way to beat a shield user. Its all footwork. I hardly ever bother to kick - i find it gets me killed personally, so just avoid it, or just plain forget. I know that people are going to try to kick me/shield bash me however - and because i’m readily anticipating it, I can quite frequently meet their forward running jump-kicks especially with a mace to the face. With the confidence to commit to a swing in anticipation of a kick, often all it takes is for them to die once as a result of trying and they’ve then lost all confidence in it - have no tricks apart from that to beat me, and i take them to pieces: you get hit once running at me trying to kick me, ill then facehug you for the combo and you’re probably doomed to be falchion food.

    For me, my opinions on how to beat people like me is somewhat mixed. Course, if I take a kick then you get a free hit, and naturally I have trouble with this happening, but I get a lot of very satisfying wins over people in duels who crutch with kicks because thats their only trick to beat me - which is many.

    When I play the best players, who really make me look bad - kicks sometimes feature, but they’ll win by countering all my own attacks: they’ll use superior footwork to stick just outside range of my own attacks so i just barely miss, then hammer in with their own before im able to block again. You cant really teach that, its practice. Im good at that myself, but the best players really take me to town.

    In summary - kicks can be very effective, but its best if you use it sparingly to tip the balance. If its your only trick to beat a shielder then you’re very stuck if you bump into anyone whos practiced for hours with the world and its dog trying to kick them - and you’ll just lose. Practice, and rely on footwork and countering their nice short 1h swings. The skill ceiling for kicking is dirt low - anyone can do it. The skill ceiling for footwork and counterattacking is very high: best to actually practice what will improve your game and overall skill.

    Anyone wants to practice with me, hit me up on steam ‘A Triumphant Turd’. Im a pretty good shield user, n I beat plenty myself - i’ll be happy to duel you and give you pointers.



  • The above is correct.

    To distinguish a good shield user for a bad quickly, before you use kicks, look at when they raise their shield. If it is raised well before you get in range, or it is up longer than nessesary ( just enough to block an attack) then they are kick-fodder. If, however they only raise their shield when you are about to hit them, after your windup, then you will have trouble landing a kick on them. You’ll have to use to us feints and other trickery to try and get them to raise a shield for a kick.
    In that case you are best doing what the above person said and use superior footwork and surprising angles of attack.

    Also don’t be afraid to try and land a kick mid combo…



  • @Triumphant:

    The skill ceiling for kicking is dirt low - anyone can do it.

    I agree on almost everything you said, except this.

    Sure pressing kick is easy. Landing it when the opponent has his shield up can be very hard against skilled players. You have to study his tactics as well as know the timings and range. I find it much more easy to let the opponent miss by an inch than getting off that kick in alot of fights.

    Kicking might be more useful after the new patch goes live (there was something done about facehugging, right?), because right now when youre close enough to kick and have the time for it, you might aswell just facehug and strike behind the shield.



  • Against someone who has their shield raised up before I am even near them, I just jump kick.
    If they only use it normally in battle, I’ll first try to run around them to their left and do a stab (or slash, depending on the weapon), then I’ll change direction to either a jump attack or left side. Essentially you just run circles around them attacking at different sides.


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