Current Patch Analysis

  • Hello everyone reading this post, before I begin I’d like to inform you of my “credentials” to critique this patch. I hope I do not come off as a braggart I’m just trying to convey I am not new to the game. I currently have 353 hours clocked and a rank of 38, I’ve participated in quite a few competitive clan matches and duels and have an overall knowledge of most of the game.

    Now that is out of the way, I’d like to firstly talk about a game mechanic everyone has conversed, raged and cried over, the feint.
    Yes, yes this ol’ thing again but I promise I won’t cry too hard!
    The feint mechanic currently is the dominate mechanic in any competitve play, it’s simply too good to not use. I don’t have as much as a grudge against it as some players do but I have some issues with it.

    The largest problem I have is the following scenario;
    To keep it simple Opponent 1 and Opponent 2 are both knights using the Sword of War.
    Opponent 1 sprints toward Opponent 2 and begins a stab when he feels he will have the momentum/range to hit Opponent 2 with the tip of his sword. Opponent 2 has a lot of time to react to this, a variety of options. As Opponent 1 approaches and stabs, he feints it in hopes of Opponent 2 reacting with an early parry, he does and is struck with an overhead delivered by Opponent 1.
    This example of using the feint mechanic is completely fine and well.

    The problem occurs afterward;
    As Opponent 2 is in stun from being struck, Opponent 1 has a variety of options. He could combo, wait, adjust spacing/position etc. Though the most popularly abused tactic at least in competitive play is after you strike your opponent you combo, then feint the combo and then strike your opponent. This becomes a roll of dice for Opponent 2. Opponent 2 just does not have enough time to reactively parry or attack and in most cases will not be able to even attack fast enough to inturrupt Opponent 1’s feint. (Varies by weapon)

    So in summary what you have is Spacing–->(Possible “Fair Feint” that your opponent can react to)—>Landing a hit---->Comboing—>Feinting said combo---->Landing another blow.
    What it boils down to is if you get hit you have a “50% chance” of getting hit by this technique and it can be repeated at least twice more often than not that will be enough to kill.

    My first question would be does this feel like a fair technique or an exploit?
    There can be many solutions to this problem, though I only can think of a few.

    1. Remove the ability to feint combos.
    I don’t feel this should be necessary but it might.

    2. Change the feint animation to be different from a regular attack.
    I think this could work, but it would have to be done correctly. The animation shouldn’t be jarringly obvious or too deceptive to notice. You’d have to find the correct middle-ground so and experienced player could recognize it and adjust accordingly.

    3. Add a delay to being able to attack after feinting a combo.
    This would make reactively parrying the technique more fair and leave the ability to defensively feint your combo to parry. Testing would be required to find the correct timing on the delay.
    The technique still would be possible but you’d have to work for it by either waiting, adjusting your position or even feinting AGAIN but, by then your opponent would have the time to inturrupt making it fair.

    I hope people can suggest more options or expand on my existing ones.

    Now for the second part of my analysis, weapon balance.
    Another heated debate but I hope I can be fair in my critique.
    I’ll start off with the Quarter-Staff;
    This weapon while nice in concept has been executed poorly. It is blatantly outclassed by many of the Man-At-Arm’s arsenal most noted the Broadsword/Dane Axe/Morning Star.
    It feels like a slightly longer, slower cudgel. It’s slight range advantage is neglible with the Man-At-Arm’s dodge ability it’s damage is terrible and it’s speed is average. Something about it needs to be buffed to be a usefull primary weapon.

    I would suggest making it’s speed faster, by how much I am not certain it will need testing. Also increase its comboing speed and reduce its stamina drain for combos.
    This would make it good for fast continual hits and allowing for less stamina drain would give the player the option to throw in a mix-up such as a kick or a dodge.
    The other route would to plain increase it’s damage but I feel that is a little lazy and doesn’t give the weapon a unique property over another.

    Now, the Polehammer.
    I am not completely sure of it’s damage values so I will just suggest what amount of hits where should kill a certain class.
    2 OH’s on Knight Torso should kill.
    1 OH on Knight head + ANY attack ANYWHERE should kill.
    1 HZ on Knight Head + OH/HZ/STB on Knight Torso should kill.
    2 STB on Knight Torso + ANY attack ANYWHERE should kill.
    1 Stab on Knight Head + ANY attack on Torso should kill.
    2 HZ attacks on Torso + ANY attack ANYWHERE should kill.
    etcetera, etcetera. In shorty, it needs a damage buff against knights to be usefull.T

    The Sling;
    I am baffled on how this weapon even got in the game, I mean it’s a neat idea but it’s not a very practical weapon in comparison to the rest of the Archer’s arsenal.
    To be quite honest I’d rather have it removed and replaced with something more viable but I cannot think of something to add.

    Its high rate of fire is negligible in it’s low damage.
    (And it’s “high rate of fire” isn’t very high at all. To launch a stone with a sling did not take this ridiculous helicopter motion, it was one quick throw and release.)
    Its possible ammo capacity advantage is negligible as well, any person who is even somewhat proficient at the Archer class wouldn’t need that many shots to hit the target not only that, but more often than not your target isn’t going to be sitting still, they are going to be closing the gap between you to force you to draw your melee weapon. Unless of course it’s another archer. Whom if using say, a Warbow with Broadhead arrows can one shot you fairly easily.
    I have no ideas in which to make this weapon usefull beyond the point of having a giggle with your friends.

    The Flail(s)
    They are balanced quite damage and range wise, though their animations can be a bit wonky, especially the alternates.
    Though I am quite disappointed that they don’t differ very much in function. I’d suggest adding a two handed flail to cater audience wanting all the fun of bashing brains in with a chained ball weapon, but lacking the view obstructing generally annoying buckler. Also granting acess to the parrying function of combat.
    Yes, this is a real weapon please refer to this wikipedia article;

    Lastly I’d like to endorse an idea I share with a user named Wolfram;

    Hi, just throwing these ideas out there.

    Swing Mechanic

    Basically, it seems to me that look-down overheads and delayed or sped-up swings are a tad… off. I mean, it’s useful, but also a bit silly. My suggestion is that throughout the swing arc, the damage the weapon will do varies. Basically, the first and last portions of the swing will have reduced damage, while the exact center will have a slight bonus damage. As an analogy, think of baseball. If you hit the ball too early or too late, it will be a crappy hit and barely make it to the bases. However, if you connect properly in the middle of your swing, it can fly to the outfield.

    Swing arc:
    25% | 20% | 10% | 20% | 25%
    Swing damage:
    80% | 100% | 110% | 100% | 80%


    There’s a lot of discussion going on about feints and kicks. Here’s my 2 cents. First, kicks should be powerful, especially against shields/defensive people. But it’s far too slow to have any affect against most people, especially MaA. Then there’s shield bash, which is ok although I personally think it should work exactly like a swing (basically, you can move normally while you bash).

    My idea of a different interrupt, though, is to give 2h weapons a bash as well, like a cross-check in hockey. It would not parry, it would cost a fair bit of stamina, and it might have a slightly high recovery time. The idea, though, is it would be fast and allow a knight or vanguard to shove back an MaA or Archer, who have huge speed advantages both for movement and swings. The 2h bash would also have a fairly decent area of effect in front of the user, but a short reach.

    Feel free to expand upon this idea in his thread located here; viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10139
    Thank you to anyone and everyone who’s read this lengthy post.

  • Just want to throw in, that not every weapon necessarily has to be competitively viable. The sling, or Quarterstaff for example, seem very much troll weapons, and their effect, like in real life, should represent that, while not being useless. They’re fun.

  • @DeminRamst:

    Just want to throw in, that not every weapon necessarily has to be competitively viable. The sling, or Quarterstaff for example, seem very much troll weapons, and their effect, like in real life, should represent that, while not being useless. They’re fun.

    While the damage on the sling is not that high, once you get used to it, the rate of fire makes it work as a great harrassing.

  • I think this thread has a bad case of TLDR. (Too Long Didn’t Read) :(

  • @Alyx:

    I think this thread has a bad case of TLDR. (Too Long Didn’t Read) :(

    Eh, it’s a little lengthy, true, but it’s not exactly TL;DR. Not yet anyways.

    You’re right though, some things need to change. Another major patch needs to come out, one that would fix animations, balance feints, and rework the sling, quarterstaff, and polehammer’s stats, as well as fix some bugs that have been around for a while.

    Anyways, I for one enjoyed reading your post.

  • While the original post might be a tad long, it is portioned quite well, making it an easy and quick read, TAKE THE TIME TO READ IT GUYS, ITS GOOD STUFF. Feel free to gloss over my stuff though :P

    I for one agree with most things in regards to weapon balance. The Polehammer definitely needs to fill its niche better as a Knight killer. If the popular opinions of a vanguard charge attack overhaul actually become reality, I feel like the proposed overhead polearm animation will suit it rather well, perhaps with the ability to oneshot knights.

    I like the idea of buffing the Quarterstaff’s speed to keep it feeling unique, it was something I hadn’t considered before. My thoughts always naturally drifted towards better range or damage to keep it on par with the other weapons, rather than thinking about buffing its uniqueness, I.e. its raw speed and unorthodox animations (imo, an understated strong suit of the qs).

    I haven’t put any time into flails at all, but I suspect the overall dislike of it is mostly due to the buckler (damn it to hell). A few knights treating the flail like a long mace have had success in my experience, while the others who try to play defensively as if that buckler is going to protect them at all, haven’t.

    Now the sling… oh, the sling. I do love me a good troll weapon, but the sling really could have a viable use with some tweaks. Most notably its rate of fire. OP you mentioned a high rate of fire, but I think that is starkly missing from the game on a practical note. It takes so damn long to fire just a couple shots. Not to mention the horrid delay from my release of the mouse button and the actual firing of the projectile. I was always of the understanding that a sling only took one quick rotation to get the projectile up to speed, which is far less time than it currently takes.

    In my opinion, the sling should have a strong position in the fray with the soldiers, rewarding quick interrupting shots rather than the killing power of the sharp projectiles. I’m quite okay with the damage where it is, if its speed is buffed to fill a niche of a melee interrupter or someone to keep the enemy archers with those warbows off balance, allowing other friendly archers to archerize with impunity.

    I’m not nearly experienced with high-level gameplay to have opinions on feints (I’m just a pubby myself, so trying to use feints gets me killed more often than not).

  • Good point on the sling, its such a useless weapon. If your good enough to hit a target at all, then use a bowed weapon which will actually do serious damage on the shot. The only time Ive seen the sling used effectively was when the entire team went archer just to mess around and focused fire on individuals.

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