Fundamental Swing/Stab/Overhead Mechanics



  • I am sad to see no other feeback to this as of yet.
    So I will try to expand on an idea of a user named, Wolfram.
    His thread located here; viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10139

    The “Swing Mechanic” (Stabs and Overheads too!) I feel needs polish, and lots of it.

    ex. A vanguard facing the opposite direction with say, a greatsword can hit you with a horizontal or overhead swing, while you are behind him and have it do full damage to you.

    Or other situations when in close quarters a horizontal strike hitting you nearly with his crossguard or handle, or very damn near close to it.

    OR the infamous “Look-Down-Overhead” where you take advantage of the positioning of the starting of the animation by looking downward making it faster to hit your opponent.

    The stab too should do the most damage at the point where the most momentum is behind the stab. None of this “lightsabering” (Landing a stab in the animation where you are no longer stabbing but are just holding your weapon straight without any momentum) nonsense.

    These attacks do NOT have enough momentum to deal the damage they do currently.
    It makes it feel as if combat is not “meaty” or have weight behind it and instead just a game of hitboxes.

    This feels really lazy, and I suspect would be far from impossible to solve.

    Varied damage values throughout the animation would prevent the abuse of the aforementioned tactics.
    Varying from weapon to weapon and the separate attacks this would prove to be a time consuming and perhaps difficult task, but I feel it would be a very, very good decision and would be appreciated by many in both the competitive and casual communities.

    Think of the whole new dynamic to combat and making it more apparent how skill-based this game is. I get tons of comments from people that this game is nothing more than “Get a big sword and click really fast”
    It can also bring a new dynamic to weapon balance and open up doors for other weapons that are currently not being used.

    Please feel free to add or critique my suggestion and check back after some replies, I’m bound to edit my ideas after some input. (This is posted in both Balance and Game Mechanics and Ideas and Suggestions as I feel it falls under the same categories and I wish to recieve as much input as possible.)



  • Is there really a problem with these mechanics other than the lacking realism? It’s annoying to die to lookdown overheads and delayed slashes because they “don’t make sense”, I get that. In the real world, slowing down an attack or connecting prematurely would weaken its impact - why shouldn’t it apply in Chivalry?
    Well, because it’s a game, and bending the rules a little for the sake of gameplay isn’t a big deal when you’re already virtually going to war in the past for entertainment.

    You speak of “new dynamics”, but I don’t think this change has anything to offer to Chivalry other than realism for its own sake. Fights would slow down because people either kill you more slowly with the nerfed mechanics or start using slow, predictable full-damage attacks that anyone could parry in their sleep. The “polish” is unneeded and detrimental.
    And what will become of feints? How popular do you think feints would be when they’re the most reliable way to bypass a parry without a damage penalty? Do you want feints in every encounter?

    I don’t mean to be insulting, but I feel this problem lies entirely with the player, and he needs to get over himself. Maybe it’s just my personal experience, but die a couple dozen more times to those lookdown overheads and you’ll discard any expectations of realism. You’ll start playing on the game’s terms. I used to hate stabs because their release often lasts much longer than the thrust animations imply and it’s really stupid to get gutted by completely inert weapons, but eventually I adjusted both defensively and offensively and now I find the most interesting part of combat is manipulating my attacks to hit around, or before, or after an enemy’s parry, with all the methods you want to see nerfed because they don’t work in the real world. For me, it would be a great price to pay just to make the game slightly less offending to realistically-inclined players. Chivalry is advertised with real-time swings, not realism swings.



  • @Torrenz:

    You speak of “new dynamics”, but I don’t think this change has anything to offer to Chivalry other than realism for its own sake. Fights would slow down because people either kill you more slowly with the nerfed mechanics or start using slow, predictable full-damage attacks that anyone could parry in their sleep. The “polish” is unneeded and detrimental.
    And what will become of feints? How popular do you think feints would be when they’re the most reliable way to bypass a parry without a damage penalty? Do you want feints in every encounter?

    I’m not trying advocate to have realism for its own sake. This game is nothing like real medieval combat, and that is fine. I’m trying to propose a new incentive to playing smart and on point.

    Fights wouldn’t have to slow down at all, generally for the most part in my 360 hours of play people strike eachother at the “appropriate” time that would make sense. Yes, you could take or deal less damage, but only when trying to abuse such tactics.

    You can get passed parries and shields without abusing aforementioned tactics, footwork is very useful. Mouse dragging, directing your attacks to hit faster/later or “strafing to the side and getting in a sneaky stab” as the tutorial demonstrates would all still be more than viable tactics.

    These problems aren’t prevelant in most public games aside from the rampant slashing and occasionally being hit by it when you’re behind the person (Usually a teamate)
    “Lightsabering” and Look-down-overheads are incorporated in to high level play because simply, why not take advantage of it if helps you win? At least that’s the thought for most of the competitve community.

    You also mentioned this making feints more prevelant. They already are in every single competitve play scenario. Watch any high skill level duels or scrimmages.
    This change wouldn’t encourage the use of feinting or not feinting.
    I have a suggestion on feinting as well as a critique of the newest patch here if you’d like to read that; viewtopic.php?f=84&t=10211



  • Bump.



  • Absolutely yes. It’s always bothered me when vanguards stab their spear forward, miss, and just swing the side of it into you for damage. Getting hit when people are facing the other direction is miserable, and makes flanking extremely difficult. I very much support these ideas.

    Something similar is a change for the controlled swings mechanic (controlling swings as you do them rather than being locked in place). Right now no matter how much you turn you will always do the same damage, so it makes a lot of sense to turn as far as you can when you’re swinging weapons that have the egregiously wide hitboxes. My suggestion is to allow a certain threshold for turning during a swing, and then after that point cause further turning to reduce the damage of the swing if it does land, and stamina costs for blocking, etc. This way people still have the ability to control their swings in real time, but it reduces the effectiveness of running around and, as my friend calls it, obi-wan kenobi-ing, swinging your sword and spinning wildly as far as you can (goes oddly well with your description of “lightsabering”).



  • A simple, elegant solution to the “lightsaber” problem with stabs is to reduce their release times across the board (by 33% or so) and give them an equal increase in recovery and/or windup to compensate. While a low release time stab can be challenging to hit with, it could also be made more forgiving and rewarding to use with careful application of buffs elsewhere.

    Spears would need to receive substantial buffs to their swing attacks, though, or be buffed some other way. On the other hand, this also introduces an opportunity to tweak the Spears for even greater individuality (the Fork gets even more speed, the Brandistock’s swing gets even better, the Spear gets a little of both or superior recovery, something like that).



  • @Torrenz:

    Well, because it’s a game, and bending the rules a little for the sake of gameplay isn’t a big deal when you’re already virtually going to war in the past for entertainment.
    s terms.

    Gotta disagree with you, from the moment I touched this game words like “wonky” and “sluggish” have never left my mind. Only when I played at 120% speed did I even feel somewhat in control of my character’s movements, subsequently I receive better K/D ratios in higher speed servers.

    At normal speed the horizontal swing animation makes me feel like I am controlling a 5 year old at his first tee ball game. It is just not an enjoyable experience at all… sorry to say it but the developers missed their mark on the combat.

    This game looked great in the previews, but I am starting to feel a bit like I was gypped out of my money. If you want to have such long swing animations, then the developers need to make it so that holding down rmb winds up your weapon, and the release of the mouse button should complete the swing action. I expect to aim where I click, the worst thing about the slowness of this game is that you have to literally hold your cursor on something for the entire 1.5 second duration of the swing itself. that is absurd, I stopped playing and picked up CS GO the other day, tried giving this game one more chance today but alas I was disappointed again.

    I can only tolderate this game in doses of about 5 minutes, I honestly can’t believe I paid 25 dollars for this experience, this game can’t even hold my attention for more than 10 minutes.



  • I wholly agree with the different damage values for different moments of the swing…i.e. reduced damage for the first and last 30% of the swing, and full damage for the mid 40%.

    I also agree on damage modifiers based on the spot of the weapon that makes contact with the enemy - hitting with areas close to the hilt deals reduced damage.

    I believe this will provide for a much greater combat depth and more interesting tactics and shots. Aiming and thinking when and how to attack would be greatly rewarded.

    The problem i see with this is 2v1-ing…flanking a busy opponent would provide huge opportunities for big damage, while fighting head-on would leave little space for 100% clean shots. Thus, the game would become a game of numbers - 2v1 would be too damn overpowered.



  • Thank you for all the replies, I’ll be updating the OP soon with another gameplay mechanic issue I have.

    @havz0r:

    The problem i see with this is 2v1-ing….flanking a busy opponent would provide huge opportunities for big damage, while fighting head-on would leave little space for 100% clean shots. Thus, the game would become a game of numbers - 2v1 would be too damn overpowered.

    I don’t quite understand your problem, I think you’re conveying that in a 2v1 scenario the person fighting by himself has more of a disadvantage?
    The scenario you provided would end up with the same conclusion as in the current patch, both parties would have to attack more precisely. It could be in either parties favor depending on player skill.

    Say two allies are fighting 1 enemy and are just innacurately “LMBing” without thought as they feel comfortable with the number’s advantage. Then the 1 enemy can appropriately and accurately counter. The end result would benefit the 1 enemy as he used the mechanics right.

    A counterpoint to that I guess could be if both parties are at or around the same skill-level, the two allies would have an advantage, right?
    Of course! That’s just common sense!

    Anyway, I guess I just don’t see how it will be a harder than it already is for people to succeed in a 2v1 if you could explain your thoughts more I’d appreciate it.



  • LmB Noobness for the win at 10:07

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPyxy_wvii8



  • @Alyx:

    Thank you for all the replies, I’ll be updating the OP soon with another gameplay mechanic issue I have.

    @havz0r:

    The problem i see with this is 2v1-ing….flanking a busy opponent would provide huge opportunities for big damage, while fighting head-on would leave little space for 100% clean shots. Thus, the game would become a game of numbers - 2v1 would be too damn overpowered.

    I don’t quite understand your problem, I think you’re conveying that in a 2v1 scenario the person fighting by himself has more of a disadvantage?
    The scenario you provided would end up with the same conclusion as in the current patch, both parties would have to attack more precisely. It could be in either parties favor depending on player skill.

    Say two allies are fighting 1 enemy and are just innacurately “LMBing” without thought as they feel comfortable with the number’s advantage. Then the 1 enemy can appropriately and accurately counter. The end result would benefit the 1 enemy as he used the mechanics right.

    A counterpoint to that I guess could be if both parties are at or around the same skill-level, the two allies would have an advantage, right?
    Of course! That’s just common sense!

    Anyway, I guess I just don’t see how it will be a harder than it already is for people to succeed in a 2v1 if you could explain your thoughts more I’d appreciate it.

    In a competent 1vs1 fight, because of the tight mechanics, much of the damage dealt between players would be reduced (lookdown overheads, accelerated swings, point blank thrusts, swing delays). However, if another guy joins the fight, he can land a clean, full damage hit on the busy opponent. This would effectively make 2v1-ing more efficient than it is now, not because 2v1 is better with the new mechanics, but because 1v1 is worse.

    Another minus would be the increased weight put on feints and kicks, which could net you a clean strike.



  • Getting hit with an overhead when you’re standing directly behind someone I think is really the only thing that needs to be changed. Perhaps that’s just a tweak to the animation or a balance between the windup/recovery time (raising one, lowering another equally).

    You can use this on any of the maps where you need to destroy doors. Just put your back up against the door and overhead. You can hit the door with a full damage overhead and it actually does it much faster since you go into a short recovery nearly instantly. It also lets you see any enemies sneaking up on you.

    Just kind of a silly mechanic in my opinion, that can cause immense amounts of rage when you’re running up on an unsuspecting enemy and he still manages to hit you, without knowing you’re there or even attempting to swing at you.


Log in to reply