Kiting, attacking while sprinting and continuing to sprint



  • Hi, One thing I’m really hating right now is Kiting, or ‘dancing’, you know, when you run backwards, quickly turn, attack, and run backwards again. I think this is pretty unbalanced because they can attack while sprinting and keep sprinting directly after that attack. Its also super unpredictable, and players with short reach weapons will fall to it every time, since kiters usually choose long reach weapons by using a vanguard or knight. Its impossible to defend against this if you have a short-reaching weapon and it’s still pretty darn hard to fight back against since it’s so unpredictable. I’ve never really seen an archer or MAA doing it (Probably because of their short reaching weapons) but I’ve seen TONS of vanguards and a few knights that love to do this. I wish you couldn’t be able to sprint directly after the sprint OR attack while sprinting



  • I don’t want to be rude, is just your point of view and i have a lot of respect about it, but i don’t agree with you. I think it was a very popular way to play in Age of Chivalry (and maybe a reminiscence of then) but since you can’t turn attacking as fast as you could do in AoC this way to play are not so effective. I only can suggest you to be clever, wait & don’t attack to the “air”.

    However (thats is the point about i don’t want to be rude, really sorry if it sounds on that way) i’m getting bored with all this topic about “don’t feint”, “don’t dancing”, “don’t 180º stab”, “don’t overhead looking to the floor”… don’t don’t don’t. Looks like everybody wants a game with parry-slash-parry-slash (LMB) battle forever (and when this day will come i will just leave playing this game). In addition most of people are against other features like directional blocking (ok, this is not M&B i agree), damage when blocking/parry with light weapon…

    Just my opinion.



  • @Cake_and_Iguanas:

    Hi, One thing I’m really hating right now is Kiting, or ‘dancing’, you know, when you run backwards, quickly turn, attack, and run backwards again. I think this is pretty unbalanced because they can attack while sprinting and keep sprinting directly after that attack. Its also super unpredictable, and players with short reach weapons will fall to it every time, since kiters usually choose long reach weapons by using a vanguard or knight. Its impossible to defend against this if you have a short-reaching weapon and it’s still pretty darn hard to fight back against since it’s so unpredictable. I’ve never really seen an archer or MAA doing it (Probably because of their short reaching weapons) but I’ve seen TONS of vanguards and a few knights that love to do this. I wish you couldn’t be able to sprint directly after the sprint OR attack while sprinting

    You didn’t actually state or show why it’s unbalanced. You just summarized what people do.

    There’s nothing inherently wrong with being able to attack while sprinting and continue to sprint.

    Can you provide some insight as to why it’s unbalanced? The closest thing you come to doing is is saying that it’s impossible to defend against a tactic with a short reach weapon but I don’t see how a short reach weapon would give you less options to defend against such thing than a long reach one. I think you’re kind of just typing stuff at that point.

    Also, kiting, while a convenient loaded term (because it implies you have no control and they have an inherent advantage) doesn’t really make sense as true kiting requires some sort of predictable AI. As a human you have the ability to think and do different things and not get caught in the dance.

    The chase mechanic allows you to move quicker than people running away, even if briefly. I think what you really mean is it’s hard to get hits in but you don’t want to say that because it doesn’t sound as bad.

    I can tell you this… No matter which way a person is facing or moving, when they swing, they swing and then have swung. That’s when you move in. Another option is to move purposely into close range so you can parry their attack (instead of hanging back waiting to more safely defend) as they don’t have the ability to dance outside of range once you’re in. That requires risk on your part and rightly so.



  • I’d say the only problem I can see with continuing to sprint after attacks is that you can sprint attack after them. I saw a guy perform a stab-overhead combo then immediately do a sprint attack but wasn’t flinched during it from the other guy’s retaliation; it was hilarious to see, but shouldn’t really be possible.



  • @Martin:

    I’d say the only problem I can see with continuing to sprint after attacks is that you can sprint attack after them. I saw a guy perform a stab-overhead combo then immediately do a sprint attack but wasn’t flinched during it from the other guy’s retaliation; it was hilarious to see, but shouldn’t really be possible.

    Indeed. I was going to make a topic about this. It actually hurts the sprint attacker more than it helps.



  • It’s even to defend against, but it is pretty hard to attack back if you have a slightly short reaching weapon, because they can sprint back directly after it without any wait time after the attack. Thats what I meant before.



  • Seems fine to me, whenever I am chasing someone I am ready for them to turn quickly, unless its an archer who didnt have time to get his butter knife out.



  • I think that it’s fine. Why is it called kiting anyway?



  • @Matti:

    I think that it’s fine. Why is it called kiting anyway?

    Because when people go kiting, they like to fly the kite as far away from them as possible.



  • @Martin:

    @Matti:

    I think that it’s fine. Why is it called kiting anyway?

    Because when people go kiting, they like to fly the kite as far away from them as possible.

    More precisely, because when you move, the Kite moves with you. You have free reign to pull the kite as close as you want or let it go as far as you need. In game terms, you have control over where your opponent’s position is in relation to you.

    Generally speaking, it happens when a fighter with superior range manages to stay out of range of a shorter-ranged opponent. Ranged heroes with slows and knockbacks manage this in MOBAs. In Chivalry, an archer that constantly shoots, then turns and runs away can accomplish this to a degree. A Spearman can, to a degree, achieve this, but it’s much harder to do because the ranges are so comparable.



  • If you are a (polearm-) vanguard, what other options do you have against people who do the “herp derp I am going to sprint-lmb-spam a short-range high-damage weapon in your face”. It may be annoing to you but it is far from being overpowered, kiting has the high risk of being combo-hit in the back and needs skill to do a 180 while stabbing (unless you are a lamer who uses 3rd person view).



  • @Atanar:

    If you are a (polearm-) vanguard, what other options do you have against people who do the “herp derp I am going to sprint-lmb-spam a short-range high-damage weapon in your face”. It may be annoing to you but it is far from being overpowered, kiting has the high risk of being combo-hit in the back and needs skill to do a 180 while stabbing (unless you are a lamer who uses 3rd person view).

    Were you trying to be ironic?

    The herp derps who somehow make it inside the polearm with their short range weapon can’t be beat by those who do a 180 while stabbing skillfully? Of course that forgets that a parry into a helicopter 180 lmb works just as well.

    Or perhaps the fact that you can take a couple hits while a single hit will probably put that MAA out of commission.

    But you can be hit in the back…well vanguards get that dumb luck oneshot kill when they draw back their swings and hit someone immediately behind them, so maybe it will kill that guy who managed to sneak up behind you with zero effort on your part.

    Vanguards can get full damage if they sprint backwards while stabbing. combine that with third person helicopter, longest range melee weapons, ability to use throwing weapons, and knockback and vanguard is the only class capable of consistently kiting.



  • @Misnomer:

    @Atanar:

    If you are a (polearm-) vanguard, what other options do you have against people who do the “herp derp I am going to sprint-lmb-spam a short-range high-damage weapon in your face”. It may be annoing to you but it is far from being overpowered, kiting has the high risk of being combo-hit in the back and needs skill to do a 180 while stabbing (unless you are a lamer who uses 3rd person view).

    Were you trying to be ironic?

    The herp derps who somehow make it inside the polearm with their short range weapon can’t be beat by those who do a 180 while stabbing skillfully? Of course that forgets that a parry into a helicopter 180 lmb works just as well.

    Or perhaps the fact that you can take a couple hits while a single hit will probably put that MAA out of commission.

    But you can be hit in the back…well vanguards get that dumb luck oneshot kill when they draw back their swings and hit someone immediately behind them, so maybe it will kill that guy who managed to sneak up behind you with zero effort on your part.

    Vanguards can get full damage if they sprint backwards while stabbing. combine that with third person helicopter, longest range melee weapons, ability to use throwing weapons, and knockback and vanguard is the only class capable of consistently kiting.

    You can’t sprint backwards. Backpedalling is far slower than jogging forward, much less sprinting forward, especially with the chase mechanic.

    Helicoptering is a pubstomp mechanic; there are no balance implications as a result of it. It’s sub-optimal and easy to counter.

    Other classes not only get ranged options as well, they have shields to deal with throwing weapons.

    Finally, the MaA has Dodge which easily negates any ability for Vanguards to kite effectively. Melee kiting just doesn’t happen in this game, not with the chase mechanic (unless, of course, a person doesn’t know how to use it).

    And even if they were capable of kiting, that’s the point. One of their only advantages is range.

    I’m not quite sure what the argument really is in the thread; I’m seeing far too many anecdotes and no facts to support any of them. Is kiting too problematic? Should kiting be more effective? Why is it the case, and why should it be otherwise? Without answering these questions, no one will be very convinced of your argument.



  • Kiting is super easy to defeat.

    Don’t chase them, intercept them….



  • You seem to enjoy complaining about everything you cant deal with.

    Seriously.

    Learn. To. Play.

    Adapt. Know weapon timing. Just because enemy swung and missed you or blocked doesnt mean it gives you the right to attack back. It’s all about quickly assessing what type of duelist your enemy is and coming up with a counter.

    As for kiting case, get the ‘feel’ for when you should chase or not to chase. There is a split second thing that should tell you whether you are in good situation or not. Learn that feeling.



  • Yeah, but it is pretty hard to catch up to someone in FFA when the chase mechanic isn’t working. And I think it isn’t really the weapons timing. I normally don’t get hit by this and parry, but I want to know how to fight back with a short-range weapon. (And you seem to hate me, I haven’t even complained much!)
    And to Toll, how can you intercept them if you can’t outrun them? :c

    Also, can this thread be locked?
    Most of these tips are OK, but there are quite a lot of insults towards me.



  • I wondered if that was an AOC hold out thing, but basically you just have to know ahead of time when someone is going to do this. If they see you, turn around and start running away, chances are they are going to spin and attack you, just sprint after them and be ready to block as soon as you see their character model turn or their weapon start moving, you’ll be in their grill in no time to strike back.



  • Thanks for the tip!



  • @Cake_and_Iguanas:

    Yeah, but it is pretty hard to catch up to someone in FFA when the chase mechanic isn’t working. And I think it isn’t really the weapons timing. I normally don’t get hit by this and parry, but I want to know how to fight back with a short-range weapon. (And you seem to hate me, I haven’t even complained much!)
    And to Toll, how can you intercept them if you can’t outrun them? :c

    Also, can this thread be locked?
    Most of these tips are OK, but there are quite a lot of insults towards me.

    I used to beat kite players with warhammer. It is a short range weapon. As the above poster said, you have to learn that the point of kiting is to give you another chance of attacking when you get blocked. Here’s what you do:

    Footstep is stupidly important. Enemy is about to hit you right? You typically walk backwards at this stage. That is the mistake most beginners make; they are still holding the back-button a split second longer than they are supposed to. This results in more gap between you and your enemy. So you have to be moving forward while blocking.

    In fact, know this difference: if enemy was sprinting toward you, you will get pushed back when you block. If he walked and attacked you, you won’t get pushed back.

    So if he sprinted toward you, you shouldn’t chase right after because you are already too far from your enemy.

    To counter, do either of the following:

    1. You have to sprint forward as soon as you block and take the extra time to move closer to your enemy. There’s your chance to attack.

    2. Just wait. Stand still. Usually they will turn around and run away and turn 180 degrees and swing. Make them miss. Keep the distance tight enough so you could hit them after they miss.



  • Thanks, this post was much more informative and helpful! :D


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