The Citadel



  • as everybody knows, citadel is not well-balanced map.

    Object 1 is too hard for Agatha.

    Object 2,3 and 5 are too hard for Mason, and too easy for Agatha.

    I think only Object 4 is fun for both team.

    And, please remove that active volcano behind the Castle.
    I always feel shame when I see that.
    It is far away from reality…



  • A lot of things are far from reality in a game. You can’t take someone’s head off with a little dagger, you can’t smash someone’s head off with a spear. Besides, who says that you have a say in where Malric wants to live, hmm? :)



  • @Matti:

    A lot of things are far from reality in a game. You can’t take someone’s head off with a little dagger, you can’t smash someone’s head off with a spear. Besides, who says that you have a say in where Malric wants to live, hmm? :)

    no, those gore things got the point, but the castle where is located in front of volcano does miss the point.
    agatha doesn’t need to attack that castle.
    just let mason staying there.
    they all dies so soon.



  • @Fresh+Blood:

    @Matti:

    A lot of things are far from reality in a game. You can’t take someone’s head off with a little dagger, you can’t smash someone’s head off with a spear. Besides, who says that you have a say in where Malric wants to live, hmm? :)

    no, those gore things got the point, but the castle where is located in front of volcano does miss the point.
    agatha doesn’t need to attack that castle.
    just let mason staying there.
    they all dies so soon.

    Then why DO agatha attack the Citadel? Because they need to.

    Malric needs to die, that’s one way to stop the Mason Order.

    The Mason’s are on the verge of destroying an already weakened Agatha anyway, that’s why they needed to strike at the head of the snake.



  • I’d like to offer two alternative theories that may… no, three theories, that may ease your concerns about the volcano.

    First, we need it so we can make “walk into Mordor” jokes.

    Second, it’s possible Malric is basically Cobra Commander and is comically inept at leading a force of evildoers. “MASONS! RETREAAAAT! RETREAAAAT!”

    Third, and this is exclusionary to theory 2, Malric may be some kind of mega-badass who isn’t worried about a volcano eruption because if the mountain dares blow up on him, he’ll go over there and smack it around until it apologies and promises not to do that again.

    Feel free to take any combination of those ideas if it helps you live with the volcano on Citadel!



  • One does not simply use the Masons’ ballistae……



  • I maintain that Malric is a dragon in disguise. Dragons fucking love volcanoes.



  • Objective 1 is pretty biased against Agatha. My friends are frustrated as they’ve never seen anything else because nobody has managed it while they were playing. In fact, I haven’t seen it since playing beta, and just yesterday I scored two hits with the Ballista myself.

    Anyway, tweaks to this map would be fantastic. Its a beatifully made one, so I’d like to enjoy it at a nice pace, as opposed to either being stuck at the gate or getting steamrolled back to Malric.



  • There are already 4 threads made about the first objective. I guess they noticed by now that that’s something they should work on.

    About the volcano:

    • It brings fertile land for the farmers (that’s why there are a lot of villages located near vulcanos)
    • It looks intimidating and therefore scares attackers and lower morale
    • Lava is a more efficient deterrent than water with some crocodiles

    And there are probably a lot more reasons to think of that are logical to help those people without a healthy amount of imagination or reasoning skills.



  • @Nivve:

    There are already 4 threads made about the first objective. I guess they noticed by now that that’s something they should work on.

    About the volcano:

    • It brings fertile land for the farmers (that’s why there are a lot of villages located near vulcanos)
    • It looks intimidating and therefore scares attackers and lower morale
    • Lava is a more efficient deterrent than water with some crocodiles

    And there are probably a lot more reasons to think of that are logical to help those people without a healthy amount of imagination or reasoning skills.

    The fuck you talking about, no sane person would live around active volcano.



  • @rumpelstiltskin:

    @Nivve:

    There are already 4 threads made about the first objective. I guess they noticed by now that that’s something they should work on.

    About the volcano:

    • It brings fertile land for the farmers (that’s why there are a lot of villages located near vulcanos)
    • It looks intimidating and therefore scares attackers and lower morale
    • Lava is a more efficient deterrent than water with some crocodiles

    And there are probably a lot more reasons to think of that are logical to help those people without a healthy amount of imagination or reasoning skills.

    The fuck you talking about, no sane person would live around active volcano.

    They are all good points, but right on top of one? Unlikely.



  • Have you considered that the people settled when the volcano was inactive? Volcanos can stay inactive for thousends or millions of years. While the area is very good for farming as already said.
    I think the volcano just burst off shortly before the agathians arrived.
    I think this is supported by the fact that lava flows through the castle, and there are cheaply made bridges over it and stuff.
    And if i get a second vote, i would support the dragon theory too. :D



  • Definitely some spawn location reworks needed, masons spawn way to close (or the agathians too far) from the objective for the first part.

    And Malric’s back up is actually a distance away unlike the Stuart’s/False king. (who practically gives birth to his minions considering how close they spawn to him… which supports my theory that he is actually a woman in disguise/ hermaphrodite) This ultimately means defending Malric, is much too difficult (or the False kings defense has it way too easy, your choice)

    As for the volcano it is a fine choice in location, all those natural resources just flowing to them, not to mention a rather entertaining method of execution to use on those dreadful Agathian’s for defending their terribly feminine and…fertile… false king. Plus fuck yea replace those giant oil pots with lava pots for a real defensive trap.



  • I have played the Citadel map 3 times this night, and every time as Agatha, because I wanted to test if the first objective truly was biased against Agathians. This night, we won every time. From my total experience (n=8), the first objective isn’t impossible. It is hard, yes, but far from impossible. There are 3 entrances to the back of the fortifications, two of which are almost a direct access to the stairs. You just need a team of 3-4 players to make it upstairs and defend the player using the ballista. And that’s just for one of them.

    There are 3 ways to balance the first objective. One would be to reduce the distance Agathians have to run to get to the fortification. Another would be to permit regular weapons to damage the pallissade instead of just the ballistas. Another would be to reduce the number of ballista shots required to take down the pallissade, currently at 5 if I recall correctly.



  • first i really liked the map although i think is exageratly epic, makes masons incredibly badass
    @Nivve:

    About the volcano:

    • It brings fertile land for the farmers (that’s why there are a lot of villages located near vulcanos)
    • It looks intimidating and therefore scares attackers and lower morale
    • Lava is a more efficient deterrent than water with some crocodiles

    the boiling and toxic vapors would kill the people, the volcanic ashes falling although fertile would make hard to live there.

    Malric likes power and a volcano is powerful thats why he resides there.



  • I think spawning Masons at the bottom of the wall would greatly even the odds. It would be more in line with other TO maps, where there is a huge obstacle in the way but if you punch through or go unnoticed, you can win before the enemies realize what is happening. A reasonably skilled player can clear the top of that wall of 6-7 masons, but that always takes time. With the nonexistent run back, mason’s are never in forces of less than 3. The only way I’ve won the first objective of Citadel was by causing such a ruckus on one side that the other goes unnoticed. Also by begging to let us win.

    In addition, I think reducing Agatha’s run distance wouldn’t be out of line.



  • @AngryDave:

    One does not simply use the Masons’ ballistae……

    After that triathlon, that includes Running a mile, dodging ballista&archer fire, fighting the Mason’s paradox of a sqawning point.

    Yes…yes i do!



  • I like the volcano. It makes the map as a whole look like Dragonstone from Song of Ice & Fire/Game of Thrones.



  • I don’t think Agatha needs to spawn closer, I think Masons need to spawn further back. They currently spawn right next to the ballistas. That’s not right.



  • @NikolaiLev:

    I don’t think Agatha needs to spawn closer, I think Masons need to spawn further back. They currently spawn right next to the ballistas. That’s not right.

    Yes, I agree. Double or triple the distance and we’re golden. As it is you can kill hordes of them only to have them back on you by the time you climb the stairs.


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