The Feinting Solution



  • Note- The following does not apply to shields. Shields are not affected by any of these changes.
    Feinting is important because it allows errant swings to be canceled before they hit a team mate, and because they are an integral part of real sword fighting. However I think the majority of the player base agrees they need some tweaking.

    My proposed solution:

    Allow all blocks to be held indefinitely, but with the following changes:

    Split the length of time you hold a block into the following three stages.

    Stage 1-Held up for 1 second (current time frame for how long you can hold a block)
    No changes. All blocks performed within this time period can lead into a parry attack and incur the same stamina costs as now. Blocking within this time period is referred to as a parry.

    Stage 2- Held for 2 seconds. All blocks performed within this time period cost three times as much stamina and cannot lead into a parry attack.

    Stage 3- Held for more than 3 seconds. All Blocks performed within this time period lead to a complete stamina drain and will stagger the blocker. Cannot lead into parry attacks.

    Have some sort of visual indicator to tell you which stage you are in. Maybe your character changing his grip or his fingers fidgeting on the handle.

    This way feints are more about faking an opponent out to bring his guard down and less about guesswork.
    Timing is just as important as before and executing a well timed block reaps benefits, whereas turtling is impossible.
    Shields are not rendered obsolete, instead they are more differentiated. Shields can block arrows and have a larger surface area to block with, and do not have such drastic stamina drains.
    –-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Have a think, tell me your opinion. I don’t think this is such a drastic change. It wouldn’t change the way the game is played very much, it would only improve the way feints are used. Less guesswork and more skill. I also think it’s particularly elegant because it doesn’t change the timing at all.





  • Ah, so sorry Musashi, I had not seen your thread. I have changed the name as I see I am not the first to think of this. However I feel this thread outlines the details of the idea quite well so maybe it’s not a total waste.



  • Bump.

    It’s time to fix the shitty parry mechanic.



  • I just think there should be a difference between a block and a parry. As outlined above, a well timed press of LMB2 executes a parry (knocking the enemy’s weapon away from you using his own momentum) whereas holding LMB2 for longer only executes a block (stopping an enemy’s weapon with your own and absorbing all of his momentum) and should stagger you or severely drain stamina.



  • The solution to feints as modifying the parry animation is often mentioned, and with some tweak, would probably be the best solutions. I like your idea of stages, however, I think they are too steep. I imagine a case where an attacker would chain feints to force the defender in the stage 3, then commit to the attack, stagger and totally drain the stamina of the defender, then hit/kill him in the same way current feints work. I think something like that would be better:

    Stage 1: 0 to 1 second parry, regular stamina drain, can lead into a counter
    Stage 2: held between 1 and 2 seconds, 200% stamina drain, cannot counter
    Stage 3: held 3 seconds and more: 300% stamina drain, cannot counter, stagger (but not like a shield daze)

    You have to imagine a case where players exchange attacks and parries more than once. With your numbers, I think players would run out of stamina after 3 or 4 exchanges, ending with one dead and the survivor out of stamina.

    Actually, I don’t see why shield could not follow the same system, except when blocking arrows and other light projectiles. Shields maintain their projectile-blocking advantage and their shield-daze vulnerability, but otherwise would be equal to parries, except maybe for the active parry area.



  • There is no majority that thinks feints should be changed.



  • @Avallac:

    There is no majority that thinks feints should be changed.

    It would help to have actual numbers to back that up, but it does seem that way. However, the thing you have to understand is from Torn Banner’s perspective. As a rising game studio, what will they have to do to keep players interested in their game? If they leave feints as-is, and have no plans on modifying it, they lose their higher-end population, one that could propel the game’s success with tournaments and events. If they remove it, they lose the other end, which is a huge part of the community. While Chivalry has experienced success beyond Torn Banner’s expectations, they cannot afford to lose player community momentum so early in their career.



  • @Avallac:

    There is no majority that thinks feints should be changed.

    You’re wrong. http://www.chivalrythegame.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8427

    Thanks Osta. Those are some good points. I don’t think the stamina costs are too drastic though, because the point is to reward pressing the block key at the precise moment a strike is coming (a parry) while still allowing the player to save himself if he pressed block too early due to a feint. Without the big stamina drains, feints would simply be useless. This is about changing being duped by a feint from a lethal mistake to a mistake that could be lethal. And also about changing the purpose of feints from bringing your guard up to instead bringing your guard down, which is how they work in real fencing. In fencing you feint to trick an opponent that a blow is coming from one direction, say towards his face, when really you’re planning on striking his side. It’s not about making him think the strike is coming sooner, like it is in Chivalry.



  • @PedroFromHell:

    You’re wrong. http://www.chivalrythegame.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8427

    And what about all the players who think the game is fine and have no reason to come to the forums complaining? How did those players vote?



  • @bada:

    @PedroFromHell:

    You’re wrong. http://www.chivalrythegame.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8427

    And what about all the players who think the game is fine and have no reason to come to the forums complaining? How did those players vote?

    No one is stopping anyone from creating an account and providing feedback. Not all feedback is critical or negative. People who decide not to use the forums choose to not have a major voice on subjects regarding the game. What about people who are against feinting and don’t use the forums?

    Feedback is important because it helps the developers know what kinds of things people like and dislike about the game. Sorry you’re so against some of the community’s opinion that you feel like you should act like it’s inferior to your own somehow. Even if a majority think feints are fine, it doesn’t make it wrong to feel otherwise. I kinda wish people would quit vilifying anti-feinters like we are a bunch of criminals for having an opinion different than pro-feinters.



  • @Slaughtervomit:

    @bada:

    @PedroFromHell:

    You’re wrong. http://www.chivalrythegame.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8427

    And what about all the players who think the game is fine and have no reason to come to the forums complaining? How did those players vote?

    No one is stopping anyone from creating an account and providing feedback. Not all feedback is critical or negative. People who decide not to use the forums choose to not have a major voice on subjects regarding the game. What about people who are against feinting and don’t use the forums?

    Feedback is important because it helps the developers know what kinds of things people like and dislike about the game. Sorry you’re so against some of the community’s opinion that you feel like you should act like it’s inferior to your own somehow. Even if a majority think feints are fine, it doesn’t make it wrong to feel otherwise. I kinda wish people would quit vilifying anti-feinters like we are a bunch of criminals for having an opinion different than pro-feinters.

    Yeah, that has nothing to do with the two sentences I wrote. Nice paragraphs though, even though they don’t apply to shit. Seems like you just wanted to get something off your chest. That’s cute.



  • It applies perfectly to what you wrote. Do you not get how polls work? You’re dismissing it just because every single person who has ever played Chivalry didn’t participate in the poll. What do you do during elections? Do you just dismiss the entire democratic process of your country’s general elections just because not every single citizen voted?
    Maybe if I change my statement you’ll be happier? The majority of the player base who BOTHER TO HAVE AN OPINION think that feinting needs to be changed. Those who don’t bother to voice their opinion don’t need to be listened to.

    And just to make something clear, I am not anti-feint. I love feints and I want them to stay, but I think they need to be tweaked. So do the majority of people in this forum.



  • @bada:

    Yeah, that has nothing to do with the two sentences I wrote. Nice paragraphs though, even though they don’t apply to shit. Seems like you just wanted to get something off your chest. That’s cute.

    It seems to also apply to what you said as a reply. You just come off as a cocky and snobby comp player who thinks your opinion is more important than anyone else’s and if someone disagrees, they are completely wrong and insignificant. It’s funny how you think you’re more important than others because you put more time into the game. Get over yourself.


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