Heater and a Vangaurd



  • Now stay with me here folks, I know this idea is seemingly ridiculous but read on.

    Now, heater shields are all but useful at the moment. They are an MAA only shield but in comparison to the buckler it is just flat out not a good idea. It slows you down more, it requires a crapload of stamina to use when compared to the buckler. Any good MAA will tell you stay the hell away from it, or even to not use a shield at all. I never see it used and when I do I think “YES a free kill.” Generally speaking not many great MAA will pull one out unless they want the tiny extra coverage it provides for against an archer.

    The Vangaurd class is decently fun, I have toyed around with the Birdiche a little. But mostly I have played around with the one handed axes. These are very fun to fight with as a van, nobody expects it and you can be really deadly even without the range of the long weapons you have access to.

    The heater shield would be an interesting thing to test in the hands of a Vangaurd, I know this is not what the class is about. Think about it though, it would make you choose between axes, knives, smokepots……shield? You would sacrifice some major toys to get your hands on it, but it would also have a lot of drawbacks.

    1. Slow you down
    2. No charge with it out
    3.Major stamina drain to block with it

    I play a knight with a shield about 99% of my play time and I feel like opening up the option to Vanguards would be okay. It is not like you would be giving them a Kite or a Tower, these would be ridiculous. But seeing that the heater barely sees the light of day, it needs a niche. Maybe this is it, maybe not. Ultimately I feel it would be a neat addition to the Vangaurd class, Right now Vangaurd vs. a good archer is an impossible battle, you will never get close to them. Bad archers on the other hand…well you know. Ultimately it is a crazy ass idea but I thought I would post it.



  • I would love to have even a simple buckler with my vanguard. Something to put in my other hand when using a one-hander!



  • Taking away the vanguards only weakness?

    I will not let this happen.



  • @lemonater47:

    Taking away the vanguards only weakness?

    I will not let this happen.

    Facehugging would still be there, for now.

    Besides, knights don’t have any weaknesses besides their slow big weapons :P



  • @lemonater47:

    Taking away the vanguards only weakness?

    I will not let this happen.

    Yeah this. Vanguards would be able to run up to archers with impunity. Hardly fair to the downtrodden skinny guys.



  • Wow, actually, I find heater shields to be way superior as a M@A when compared to the buckler and usually regard buckler M@A as free kill since they seem to not know what they are doing… bucklers are just too small to really rely on in defense and M@A cannot afford to get hit. I do not remember one single occasion when I met a dangerous buckler M@A, but plenty of no-shielders and a handful of Heater shield bearers.

    As to shields with Vanguards: I am really not sure about this, I think it would take much of the classes uniqueness away. Their secondaries are really just fall back weapons unlike in the Knight’s case where they are equal alternatives to the primaries. A shield Vanguard would basically play like a weak Knight or a slow M@A.
    And the balance points:

    1. A shield only slows you down when compared to non-shield one handers. But Vanguards are hardly speed-reliant as they are made for huge slow primaries.

    2. Charge is not really that useful so it would hardly be missed.

    3. I don’t think the added stamina drain would be that much of a disadvantage, I’m already doing fine with a Heater on the stamina-reliant M@A.

    4. The trade-off for thrown stuff and pots is a viable point, I can hardly comment on that fairly because I almost always choose a shield if possible.

    Even though I think it would be pretty interesting to try out a Vanguard with a shield, my main point is that it takes away some of the specialization that class has and was designed to have… Vanguards should stick with their role as long range heavy hitter with a focus on >offensive< play. Otherwise they may just blend in too much.



  • @lemonater47:

    Taking away the vanguards only weakness?

    I will not let this happen.

    Agreed



  • A TRADE!
    Vanguard gest MAA’s Heater Shield
    MAA gets Vanguard’s HP



  • It’d be interesting if Vanguards were able to use a Shield with Spear weapons (since at least the Spear itself would be usable 1h, since it’s not a Pike). He might not be able to thrust it quite as far, and it’d do less damage, but the Shield would obviously be invaluable. It’d be like the Bastard Weapon line of the Knight.

    Of course, this doesn’t leave room for the Skirmisher class, which would make use of 1h Spears and Shields, so this definitely shouldn’t be done. :P



  • @Rodelero:

    A TRADE!
    Vanguard gest MAA’s Heater Shield
    MAA gets Vanguard’s HP

    =0 Deal!



  • @Daiyuki:

    @Rodelero:

    A TRADE!
    Vanguard gest MAA’s Heater Shield
    MAA gets Vanguard’s HP

    =0 Deal!

    I like ur style



  • @Rodelero:

    @Daiyuki:

    @Rodelero:

    A TRADE!
    Vanguard gest MAA’s Heater Shield
    MAA gets Vanguard’s HP

    =0 Deal!

    I like ur style

    Thank you sir, I rather admire the cut of your jib myself.

    Also what’s a jib?



  • @Rodelero:

    A TRADE!
    Vanguard gest MAA’s Heater Shield
    MAA gets Vanguard’s HP

    The thing is, all the classes have the same HP, only different armor values… so I cry foul over your trickery!



  • @NikolaiLev:

    It’d be interesting if Vanguards were able to use a Shield with Spear weapons (since at least the Spear itself would be usable 1h, since it’s not a Pike). He might not be able to thrust it quite as far, and it’d do less damage, but the Shield would obviously be invaluable. It’d be like the Bastard Weapon line of the Knight.

    Of course, this doesn’t leave room for the Skirmisher class, which would make use of 1h Spears and Shields, so this definitely shouldn’t be done. :P

    This I actually stated a few times before without any response.
    I am opposed to any notion of a shield with the Vanguard, aside from the spear weapons. Moreover, I think this will need to get a different kind of shield (big round shield), since any other would simply look out of place for this.

    1. It would not distract some uniqueness of the javelineer since a 3 meter spear handles way differently than the small javelin. The javelineer is an up close class to harass and a hoplite (that’s what it would be of course) would be a long range support class. It just changes focus from an offensive to a defensive (or damage dealer to tanker) perspective.
    2. The shield brings plenty of downsides to the class to make this a slow class with a lot of range. Also making it only available to spears would limit it’s use tremendously (especially since not many people use spears).


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