Why hasn't this been suggested before? Regarding Feints



  • Im going to keep this simple.

    Right now parry hold time is like 0.4/0.5 seconds and cooldown is 0.4/0.5 seconds. I forget the exact value.

    Why dont we change the parry duration and cooldown to lower value, like 0.2 seconds?

    This would make parrying require more correct timing and also allow you to quickly re-parry if the enemy feints. Short window on parry should force attacking players to make more careful timing of their feints. Short duration and cooldown will only allow feints to be used at the beginning of windup, as the defender can quickly pull up his weapon again if the feint is used at the end of windup.

    Right now feint duel goes like this:

    Attacker……Defender
    Started windup…Waiting
    0.1sec into windup…Waiting
    0.2sec into windup…Waiting
    0.3sec into windup…Parry started
    0.4sec feint…0.1sec into parry
    0.1sec into windup…0.2sec into parry
    0.2sec into windup…0.3sec into parry
    0.3sec into windup…0.4sec into parry
    0.4sec into windup…0.5sec parry lowered
    0.5sec hit…0.6sec parry lowered

    If you reduce parry duration and cooldown, this happens:

    Attacker…Defender
    Started windup…Waiting
    0.1sec into windup…Waiting
    0.2sec into windup…Waiting
    0.3sec into windup…Parry started
    0.4sec feint…0.1sec into parry
    0.1sec into windup…0.2sec into parry
    0.2sec into windup…0.3sec parry lowered
    0.3sec into windup…0.4sec parry lowered
    0.4sec into windup…0.5sec into second parry
    0.5sec blocked…0.6sec into second parry

    Now, this is only an example and the actual numbers on parry duration and cooldown may vary. The number should be set so that if you parried too early, you would get hit, but short enough so that you can retaliate.

    At the current state, you can start parry early and still block if enemy didnt feint. With the short parry duration, you will get hit if you parried too early.

    An option to choose which parry to use would be cool too. Alternate parrying. Normal parry is the current slow parry that allows to you block more than one enemy. Alternate parry is the shorter one specifically deals with feint but sacrifices fighting multiple enemies.



  • How is that improving feints?



  • @lemonater47:

    How is that improving feints?

    Dont many players hate dealing with feints? I didnt want to say ‘fixing feints’ because current one is not broken.

    By the way your tag says ‘For Argon’. Isnt argon a chemical element? You serve an element? It’s like saying ‘For nitrogen!’



  • i was also thinking about feints, but what i suggest is even simpler….the ability to cancel out of parrys (just like you can feint to cancel out of attacks)! It’s also more realistic that one does not simply keep up his parry when he sees the other man faint, but tries to reset his defence to be ready for a new parry when the new attack comes.
    Then theres no need to change the timing, though it is another button to use, but atleast to me, it seems it will make fighting more challenging and entertaining.



  • @Eix82:

    i was also thinking about feints, but what i suggest is even simpler….the ability to cancel out of parrys (just like you can feint to cancel out of attacks)!

    Well that would give you the ability to constantly parry.

    I prefer to restrict feints to the first half of the windup.



  • @gregcau:

    @Eix82:

    i was also thinking about feints, but what i suggest is even simpler….the ability to cancel out of parrys (just like you can feint to cancel out of attacks)!

    Well that would give you the ability to constantly parry.

    I prefer to restrict feints to the first half of the windup.

    Not if canceling out of parry also uses stamina (like feints do).
    I’m personally fine with faints as they are now, just what i’m thinking is that (like the original poster) if you feel they are unbalanced, don’t nerf the feint, buff parry (i’m just giving an another way to improve parry).



  • @Eix82:

    i was also thinking about feints, but what i suggest is even simpler….the ability to cancel out of parrys (just like you can feint to cancel out of attacks)! It’s also more realistic that one does not simply keep up his parry when he sees the other man faint, but tries to reset his defence to be ready for a new parry when the new attack comes.
    Then theres no need to change the timing, though it is another button to use, but atleast to me, it seems it will make fighting more challenging and entertaining.

    I dont know how your suggestion is simpler than mine. Mine is just punching two numbers while yours is implementing a new mechanic and there needs to be balanving afterwards



  • @gregcau:

    @Eix82:

    i was also thinking about feints, but what i suggest is even simpler….the ability to cancel out of parrys (just like you can feint to cancel out of attacks)!

    Well that would give you the ability to constantly parry.

    I prefer to restrict feints to the first half of the windup.

    I actually suggested this a week after the game came out with detailed supporting arguments but everyone was like feints are fine, learn to play, too early to tell, and so on. Look where we are now. Jest was adamant that the combat stays where it is, and look where he is. He quit the game because he didnt like the mechanic.

    viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5294

    Look at the link above. Some people are just too stubborn to accept new ideas.



  • @boomandvibe:

    @Eix82:

    i was also thinking about feints, but what i suggest is even simpler….the ability to cancel out of parrys (just like you can feint to cancel out of attacks)! It’s also more realistic that one does not simply keep up his parry when he sees the other man faint, but tries to reset his defence to be ready for a new parry when the new attack comes.
    Then theres no need to change the timing, though it is another button to use, but atleast to me, it seems it will make fighting more challenging and entertaining.

    I dont know how your suggestion is simpler than mine. Mine is just punching two numbers while yours is implementing a new mechanic and there needs to be balanving afterwards

    i thought simpler in the way that core parrying stays the same, you simply add the ability to cancel out of it, while your solution would require players to relearn parrying (since the timings will be different). But yea, my idea needs more balancing and might be a bit harder to implement, that’s true.



  • @Eix82:

    i thought simpler in the way that core parrying stays the same, you simply add the ability to cancel out of it, while your solution would require players to relearn parrying (since the timings will be different). But yea, my idea needs more balancing and might be a bit harder to implement, that’s true.

    I meant simpler to implement. Whatever change the devs make, players will need to learn.

    I dont think you put much thought into your suggestion. Parry lasts for 0.4 sec and cooldown lasts for 0.5 sec. If you want the cancel out option to block feints, there shouldnt be any cooldown between parries, which is ridiculous. Otherwise it would be the same; you just have the ability to end your parry early. Who would want to let their parry go into cooldown when you can just feint out of it and attack right after?



  • @boomandvibe:

    @Eix82:

    i thought simpler in the way that core parrying stays the same, you simply add the ability to cancel out of it, while your solution would require players to relearn parrying (since the timings will be different). But yea, my idea needs more balancing and might be a bit harder to implement, that’s true.

    I meant simpler to implement. Whatever change the devs make, players will need to learn.

    I dont think you put much thought into your suggestion. Parry lasts for 0.4 sec and cooldown lasts for 0.5 sec. If you want the cancel out option to block feints, there shouldnt be any cooldown between parries, which is ridiculous. Otherwise it would be the same; you just have the ability to end your parry early. Who would want to let their parry go into cooldown when you can just feint out of it and attack right after?

    Like i suggested earlier (in a reply to gregcau), canceling out of parrying should cost stamina (like feinting), that should limit it’s abuse somewhat…though yea, it’s more of an idea, than a fully formulated plan…so it’s open to discussion…



  • @boomandvibe:

    By the way your tag says ‘For Argon’. Isnt argon a chemical element? You serve an element? It’s like saying ‘For nitrogen!’

    Are you being serious? I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic or just really stupid but Argon is the leader of the Agathian Faction.



  • @Matti:

    @boomandvibe:

    By the way your tag says ‘For Argon’. Isnt argon a chemical element? You serve an element? It’s like saying ‘For nitrogen!’

    Are you being serious? I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic or just really stupid but Argon is the leader of the Agathian Faction.

    I know that. I wasnt being serious. Relax



  • It has been suggested before. However, many players already find it very difficult to successfully time a block against particularly fast weapons (or particularly slow weapons in the hands of a player who knows how to manipulate swing dragging) - a shorter active parry would exacerbate this.



  • @SlyGoat:

    It has been suggested before. However, many players already find it very difficult to successfully time a block against particularly fast weapons (or particularly slow weapons in the hands of a player who knows how to manipulate swing dragging) - a shorter active parry would exacerbate this.

    Yeah if hitting “through” parries is a problem now…. those high ping fast weapon players…ugh…



  • @SlyGoat:

    It has been suggested before. However, many players already find it very difficult to successfully time a block against particularly fast weapons (or particularly slow weapons in the hands of a player who knows how to manipulate swing dragging) - a shorter active parry would exacerbate this.

    Ok then my suggestion is useless.



  • Holdable parries.



  • BTW Jest defended the old feints because all he did every duel was feint feint feint stab at facehug range with the norse sword. He quit because he was a bitch after they changed feints.

    He was also comparing mindgames in Warband to Chiv but he was forgetting a major aspect which is the holdable parry in Warband. And that feinting was changing stances and not attack cancelling like Chiv. (Dude was retarded glad he quit)

    And also comparing Fighting Games (which have a holdable block) to Chiv. Dude made me snort milk out of my nose countless times.

    If you think he was a good dueler you are retarded. The only time I ever lost to him was when he went MAA Norse Sword. He was an ok dueler but if you think his opinion should be weighed more because he was some god you are just out of it.



  • @MUSASHI:

    BTW Jest defended the old feints because all he did every duel was feint feint feint stab at facehug range with the norse sword. He quit because he was a bitch after they changed feints.

    He was also comparing mindgames in Warband to Chiv but he was forgetting a major aspect which is the holdable parry in Warband. And that feinting was changing stances and not attack cancelling like Chiv. (Dude was retarded glad he quit)

    And also comparing Fighting Games (which have a holdable block) to Chiv. Dude made me snort milk out of my nose countless times.

    If you think he was a good dueler you are retarded. The only time I ever lost to him was when he went MAA Norse Sword. He was an ok dueler but if you think his opinion should be weighed more because he was some god you are just out of it.

    Lol someone is mad about jest. He didn’t exploit stab feint combos until Jackbaldy told him about it. I was actually there with them in the server. Jest beat Jackbaldy in most duels without the exploit.

    Jest is one of the best. It’s true without a doubt. He played 3000 hrs of Warband and his skills carried over.

    I have not seen you duel jest so I can’t believe you, but whatever makes you happy man.

    But I do agree with you on jest’s argument about mindgames and stuff. It’s not up to jest to decide where the game goes, whether it’d be mindgames or pure reactionary combat. It’s up to the devs.



  • Yet people keep telling them to remove feints. I thought it was up to the devs?

    Basically more dramatic misunderstanding of the fact that a feint is supposed to beat a parry. Holdable parries? Let’s not even get started on all the fallout such a thing would have on the rest of the game.

    Cancelable parries? What would the point be? To alter your parry to adjust to the feint:? What would be the point of the feint, then?

    Maybe I should be able to cancel when I get hit so I can undo the effects of when messed up and got hit.

    How about this suggestion…

    Allow players to move and/or attack when someone is trying to attack them. This way people could hit people out of feints or position themselves in ways to avoid blows either way. In fact, I should make a topic about this.


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