Is the MAA overpowered against slower classes?



  • MAA is balanced because they are meant to be situational.

    On an equal playing field skill-wise:

    MAA are a flanking/1v1 class. Facing multiple enemies is not a good time to be MAA.

    Vanguards/Knights are classes meant for multiple enemies. They have reach, power, and armor.

    Archers are meant to support at a range. They are not meant to be the frontlines of a fight. (they can also be a flanker, but much less effective due to not having dodge)

    MAA can be seen as an OP class because in the hands of a skilled player, they can walk on someone in a fight like they are nothing. MAA’s should be fought in groups of allies, or around some kind of support, not alone.

    Without dodging there really isn’t any reason to pick a MAA over vanguard. Unless, of course, you want the tad bit of extra run speed or oil pots/shields… Dodging can be a very useful tool or a horrible waste of stamina… The only thing I am not a huge fan of is starting a windup then being able to dodge while swinging. To me, it feels cheap. Just an opinion.



  • Personally i think the problem with MAA is that dodging can be used too effectively as an offensive move.

    Dodging is by definition a defensive maneuver, moving out of the way of a blow to save your life. Explain to me how the hell is dodging forward, towards an enemy a “dodge”? That’s a CHARGE, not a DODGE.

    Remove dodge forward, let them dodge left-right and back, and make it impossible to attack during and a second after a dodge and it’ll be balanced. (Maybe reduce the stamina cost on dodge a bit to compensate)



  • @Extropy:

    Personally i think the problem with MAA is that dodging can be used too effectively as an offensive move.

    Dodging is by definition a defensive maneuver, moving out of the way of a blow to save your life. Explain to me how the hell is dodging forward, towards an enemy a “dodge”? That’s a CHARGE, not a DODGE.

    Remove dodge forward, let them dodge left-right and back, and make it impossible to attack during and a second after a dodge and it’ll be balanced. (Maybe reduce the stamina cost on dodge a bit to compensate)

    A mechanic shouldn’t be based on its name. This is a poor argument.

    The dodge forward attack is fine. Most players just don’t understand that swinging and missing out of range of an MAA is pretty much instant death. Don’t do it.



  • They are perfectly fine, coming from someone that usually plays the heavier classes.



  • Well, MAA certainly seem overpowered against every other class. But only 1v1. Yesterday, my team was massacred by a skilled enemy MAA because we weren’t playing as a team at all, he hunted us 1 by 1 (I was the only who succeeded killing him 1v1, but only once). After he killed me like for the fifth time, I got angry, stop hunting archers and focused on hunting him. And guess what… dodge is pretty useless when you are closing in for a panicking archer and get hit in head with a zweihänder from behind :) Then we started to play more like a team and focusing on him together and suddenly his death count started to grow much faster then his kill count :)

    Concerning the 1v1 fights, the MAAs are really a little bit too OP after the last patch that nerfed KICKING. It was sometimes a useful way to counter facehugging but now nobody uses it anymore.



  • @Eleshar_Vermillion:

    Concerning the 1v1 fights, the MAAs are really a little bit too OP after the last patch that nerfed KICKING. It was sometimes a useful way to counter facehugging but now nobody uses it anymore.

    Exactly, nothing wrong with MAAs but we need an alternate kick that is fast for face huggers.



  • I don’t require no “alternate” kick or shit, give me back the kick as it was before the last patch:)



  • As someone who plays almost exclusively MAA, I could see the dodge forward being removed as it does give you a huge advantage. Very easy to dodge backwards away from a swing, then insta-dodge forward while winding up your attack before their attack finishes.
    On the other hand, good players have no problems countering forward dodges. I guess it’s all about the defender’s skill, but if it did get removed I wouldn’t cry about it…. much.



  • If you were to remove dodging forward + attack somehow, you would kill the MaA class.

    Or at the very least, you would make him severely lacking.



  • When someone get wrecked by a good vanguard, vanguards are op. Maa? mma are op. Pro knight stomped a nab? Knights are op.

    And on a serious note, maa were nerfed quite a lot, sprint dodge nerf, norse sword nerf. Those changes made maa balanced. But then maa was nerfed even further, with increased stamina cost that was just too much. Still not unplayable but considering how super squishy maa is they might be at a disadvantage now.



  • I think MAA rewards alot of practice and patience. Like most players start using vanguard or knight and learn that first and it is arguably easier because of your 1.Bigger weapon 2.Durabillity

    I think to nerf MAA would make the class basically inoperable by new players and you would make the game more weighted to heavier classes more so then it already is.



  • Removing forward dodge wouldn’t do much - dodge back + sprint forward will usually get you the exact same result for considerably less stamina. Whether or not an maa absolutely wrecks you or goes toe to toe with you depends largely on whether or not you negate your almost inevitable whiff’s recovery with combo>feint. Weapon recoveries are simply far too long for you to let yourself experience them against a talented maa (and with some of the slower weapons with an enemy right out of reach, against anyone at all).



  • @Pitchfork:

    I think MAA rewards alot of practice and patience. Like most players start using vanguard or knight and learn that first and it is arguably easier because of your 1.Bigger weapon 2.Durabillity

    Yep, definitely.
    I think there actually is very special sort of balance in Chivalry.
    If we look at the classes:

    1. Archer
    2. Man-at-Arms
    3. Vanguard
    4. Knight

    It really is a difficulty and power scale with the most powerful and most difficult classes on top and the least powerful and weakest classes on the bottom. What I love about Chivalry is its fighting realism. Many people say it is hardly a simulator but I think it is as close to one as current technology permits. I do some historical fencing with sabre and epée and all fighting is ultimately only about distance and timing, technique really comes into it when both opponents are very skilled.

    Chivalry contains almost no technique (very small basics of riposting, feinting and comboing) but it depicts very faithfully the problems of timing and distancing. In this system the class with the highest mobility is unavoidably the class with most combat power. But it takes skills to master it, so people begin with heavier classes (I began with a knight) because they can take more hits - which is a smart move, the one more hit to kill you may be the difference between you being dead and companions taking down the assailant. Very soon, the player is ready to try a faster class according to his preferences. But the faster classes are more difficult and require more practice and innate skill which many players are not willing or capable to provide so even if the knight ultimately cannot be a match for equally skilled MaA, there are very little MaAs as skilled as the knights.

    The archers are, I think the top level of power because of their ability to kill potentially anyone almost anywhere on the battlefield provided they have enough skill. But this is so incredibly difficult and requires such a lengthly training that they are definitely not overpowered, quite the contrary. While it is very frustrating to be killed by an archer (because their hits hurt and can often oneshot you in the head while it is often impossible to defend against them), it doesn’t happen as often as it seems and you don’t encounter archers toping scoreboards very frequently (I managed that a few times as a crossbowman on a certain map, always with 3/4 of my kills coming from the cudgel…).

    In conclusion, the classes with greater “power” are redeemed by the fact that they are generally much more difficult. And in game centered around distance and timing, it is clear that the fastest dodger will always come on top in duels. The key to defeating them is, of course, teamwork - MaAs can’t dodge what they can’t see and their moves can be anticipated. If they are strong in duels, don’t fight them in duels, the game is not about duelling.



  • @Eleshar_Vermillion:

    @Pitchfork Mob:

    I think MAA rewards alot of practice and patience. Like most players start using vanguard or knight and learn that first and it is arguably easier because of your 1.Bigger weapon 2.Durabillity

    Yep, definitely.
    I think there actually is very special sort of balance in Chivalry.
    If we look at the classes:

    1. Archer
    2. Man-at-Arms
    3. Vanguard
    4. Knight

    It really is a difficulty and power scale with the most powerful and most difficult classes on top and the least powerful and weakest classes on the bottom. What I love about Chivalry is its fighting realism. Many people say it is hardly a simulator but I think it is as close to one as current technology permits. I do some historical fencing with sabre and epée and all fighting is ultimately only about distance and timing, technique really comes into it when both opponents are very skilled.

    Chivalry contains almost no technique (very small basics of riposting, feinting and comboing) but it depicts very faithfully the problems of timing and distancing. In this system the class with the highest mobility is unavoidably the class with most combat power. But it takes skills to master it, so people begin with heavier classes (I began with a knight) because they can take more hits - which is a smart move, the one more hit to kill you may be the difference between you being dead and companions taking down the assailant. Very soon, the player is ready to try a faster class according to his preferences. But the faster classes are more difficult and require more practice and innate skill which many players are not willing or capable to provide so even if the knight ultimately cannot be a match for equally skilled MaA, there are very little MaAs as skilled as the knights.

    The archers are, I think the top level of power because of their ability to kill potentially anyone almost anywhere on the battlefield provided they have enough skill. But this is so incredibly difficult and requires such a lengthly training that they are definitely not overpowered, quite the contrary. While it is very frustrating to be killed by an archer (because their hits hurt and can often oneshot you in the head while it is often impossible to defend against them), it doesn’t happen as often as it seems and you don’t encounter archers toping scoreboards very frequently (I managed that a few times as a crossbowman on a certain map, always with 3/4 of my kills coming from the cudgel…).

    In conclusion, the classes with greater “power” are redeemed by the fact that they are generally much more difficult. And in game centered around distance and timing, it is clear that the fastest dodger will always come on top in duels. The key to defeating them is, of course, teamwork - MaAs can’t dodge what they can’t see and their moves can be anticipated. If they are strong in duels, don’t fight them in duels, the game is not about duelling.

    I have to agree with this entire post. To complain about MAAs in dueling is nonsense when the game has dueling as a MODE not as THE GAME. To nerf their duel ability makes them crippled in other areas of the game.

    Not to mention it takes forever to learn a class and learn it well why not try to learn from the MAA who is consistently beating you instead of just saying their over powered?



  • @c4ndlejack:

    I think the class is balanced, but I also think dodging should work every time. One of the downsides to dodging right now is that it’s not always reliable on certain surfaces and that shouldn’t be true.

    Quite so, and it sometimes doesn’t dodge in the right direction, which is quite fatal.



  • I always play MAA, and I always played MAA and sergeant in AoC. Because MAA is the only class that give you a bit of a challenge. Knight is an ez mode class. You have have the durability, you have the power, the only thing you have to do is to click the left mouse button and be able to land your slash on your enemy and not killing your own team in the process(which most of the times fails). IMO the MAA and vanguard are the only skill based classes(archers were already broken from the beta, and even in AoC). So being killed by a MAA as a knight should just never happen. Just find an easier server in that case.
    The only thing that is broken is the fact that knights can swing some of their weapons really fast. Which should not be the case with a tank class. And yet people still seem to complain that their favorite ez mode class swings his sword too slow. Too bad that most of the knights don’t use these weapons. Or else they might have been a challenge…
    Sorry for my arrogance, but seeing the player base getting shittier every day just pisses me off.



  • I enjoying playing against the MAA class its always a good challenge. The only issue i have is not actually with the MAA but with some of the weapons they use (the same weapons that overlap with knights). Some of them seem a bit broken with their hit boxes. So of the hit boxes are a bit too long.

    I play the javelin class often and feel i have to carry a disadvantage against MAA which is the inability for me to easily block left or right quickly and also to be able to attack left or right as easily as i’d like to. This can be countered by good foot work on my part and using terrain to control where the MAA can go, but i feel the javelin class and perhaps a couple of other shield classes shouldn’t suffer this disadvantage. That said it is not the MAA’s fault that other classes can’t block or attack to the sides as well as they should.
    I’d like to see the ability to block or parry if you’re a shield user as this would enable people to be able to respond better to attacks from the left or right sides. Which is only fair given that an attacker does not need to move left or right to cause someone to have to block wildly to the left and wildly to the right.
    MAA is just fine as it is.



  • Overpowered?

    Yes, but only because the other classes simply can’t keep up. For a class that requires the most skill to use (debatable), it relies pretty cheap tactics - facehugging and the deceptively awkward hitboxes of the weapons they use. Once an MaA is in your face, I’d say you lost the fight already. And I’ve seen many MaA use the dodge back dodge forward relentlessly with great results.

    With that said, I think the issue right now is more that parry seems off or at least buggy in its current state. Otherwise, force the MaA into making a mistake - don’t wait for him to make one because he can fix it pretty easily.



  • Lol, your statement is rubbish MAA doesn’t require skill and the fight is far from over when they attempt to facehug. I don’t know why people have trouble parrying MAA at facehug range, maybe its because they aren’t playing 1st person?
    The beauty of the MAA class is that the fight starts before anyone takes a swing.



  • I play MMA 90% the time. I do certainly not feel OP. It takes forever to break a knight that knows how to block, dodging only reduces my stamina while delaying my final fate. And while I try to kill one, I usually get slain by some other chap that comes along. Often a good teammate steals half my energy swinging around his twohanded, so the enemy has a short pleasure of chopping me up.

    I usually get shot in my head if I pursue an archer at a distance and using shields just eats up stamina. I’m a level 30, but still playing MMA I constantly die.

    Obviously I’m not the best MMA :)

    As a support unit I’m awesome, quick dodge-in-and-stab and I love defending archers.


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