Long range skillshot score bonuses



  • Obviously the main concern for most people will be that it may encourage more mediocre archer play for those newbies who want to play sniper. But that’s a problem in every game, so I say why not?



  • OMG not even more random luck shots add groups out of spawn by “skilled” archers -.-

    The archer is NOT a sniper.

    Long range shots at combatants are pure luck, because the arrow travel time is to long to predict ur targets path during combat. And if the enemy is running to battle in a straight line not aware of u, u should not get a bonus.



  • Depends on how long the shot is… I’ve become pretty good at picking off ‘cowards’ hiding in Agatha castle in Stoneshill from pretty far distances… (Especially ones on ballistae) It is kind of a matter of knowing the effective range vs trying to “drop shot” someone from halfway across the map…

    I don’t know so much about “points” but maybe a longshot achievement would be fine for getting something from a certain distance?



  • @restinpieces:

    OMG not even more random luck shots add groups out of spawn by “skilled” archers -.-

    The archer is NOT a sniper.

    Long range shots at combatants are pure luck, because the arrow travel time is to long to predict ur targets path during combat. And if the enemy is running to battle in a straight line not aware of u, u should not get a bonus.

    It is not pure luck. I can reliably place long range shots where i want them to be, more or less. I have ‘set shots’ that i like to take eg. On ballistas/catapults (need to adjust slightly if cata is turning) that i will hit most of the time (sometimes prompting cries of “that’s impossible” but no, there is no random arrow trajectory and I just aimed the same shot three times).

    I am defintely not the only one who does this, I know archers on my servers better than me at this and we have nice long range archer battles with arrows missing by less than a foot usually.



  • I’d rather not incentivize poor play. It is true that long shots are occasionally successful, usually against more or less stationary targets like other archers or people manning siege equipment, however it is not the focus of the archer class and should not be mechanically encouraged lest it detract from more effective closer-range play.

    Though as Slaughtervomit suggested, it would be nice to get a longshot achievement or something along those lines, because it is really satisfying when you do land those really long range shots.



  • @BanthaFett:

    I’d rather not incentivize poor play. It is true that long shots are occasionally successful, usually against more or less stationary targets like other archers or people manning siege equipment, however it is not the focus of the archer class and should not be mechanically encouraged lest it detract from more effective closer-range play.

    This is correct. Sniping is sub-optimal play; unlocks and achievements already do enough damage when it comes to encouraging such behavior (in the form of creating greed for kills, which leads to teamwounding and even teamkills). We should avoid any more instances of that.



  • @NikolaiLev:

    @BanthaFett:

    I’d rather not incentivize poor play. It is true that long shots are occasionally successful, usually against more or less stationary targets like other archers or people manning siege equipment, however it is not the focus of the archer class and should not be mechanically encouraged lest it detract from more effective closer-range play.

    This is correct. Sniping is sub-optimal play; unlocks and achievements already do enough damage when it comes to encouraging such behavior (in the form of creating greed for kills, which leads to teamwounding and even teamkills). We should avoid any more instances of that.

    So a class should be sub optimal? This makes no sense to me.

    Granted that some long range shots are pure luck, since the enemy can easily dodge arrows, but when I shoot from the peasant village to a ballista and score a headshot, I expect more reward than just ten points, when I can charge in as a Vanguard with Zweihander without any effort and score three kills with one swing. This is poor play; easy mode at its worst.

    I don’t see at all how this encourages poor play. This is meant for crossbows, which are highly inferior to bows at all but long ranges. The added score does not promote poor gameplay - poor snipers still score badly, whereas good ones can actually get rewarded for the effort they are putting in. We shouldn’t have a class or option that is useless in the competive scheme.



  • You are equating sniping with the archer class. Archers are not snipers.

    An archer who is hanging back and only shooting at distant targets is not being as effective as he could be by moving up and getting more reliable hits on more targets. The majority of combatants are engaging each other and moving reasonably erratically. The farther you are from your target the greater the chance that they will move in a direction that you didn’t predict and you will miss. An archer will get more hits on target if he is not attempting to lob shots from long range. Therefore it is unwise to encourage archers to lob shots from long range by artificially inflating their score relative to their contribution.

    However, I wouldn’t mind seeing a point bonus for killing players manning siege equipment. That would incentivize a behavior that I think is good which is maintaining an awareness of enemy siege equipment, and it is something that archers are particularly well suited for. But I don’t think that archers are entitled to extra points for killing people at long range any more than I think that knights are entitled to extra points for killing people with thrown weapons, sure it happens sometimes, and sometimes its best move, but it shouldn’t be incentivized in such a way that people are encouraged to do it when it’s unnecessary.



  • @BanthaFett:

    You are equating sniping with the archer class. Archers are not snipers.

    An archer who is hanging back and only shooting at distant targets is not being as effective as he could be by moving up and getting more reliable hits on more targets. The majority of combatants are engaging each other and moving reasonably erratically. The farther you are from your target the greater the chance that they will move in a direction that you didn’t predict and you will miss. An archer will get more hits on target if he is not attempting to lob shots from long range. Therefore it is unwise to encourage archers to lob shots from long range by artificially inflating their score relative to their contribution.

    However, I wouldn’t mind seeing a point bonus for killing players manning siege equipment. That would incentivize a behavior that I think is good which is maintaining an awareness of enemy siege equipment, and it is something that archers are particularly well suited for. But I don’t think that archers are entitled to extra points for killing people at long range any more than I think that knights are entitled to extra points for killing people with thrown weapons, sure it happens sometimes, and sometimes its best move, but it shouldn’t be incentivized in such a way that people are encouraged to do it when it’s unnecessary.

    Ok I agree with your points to some extent, but this is fatal behavior for a Heavy Crossbow user. Teammates don’t support you enough for you to engage in close ranges, where the bows are already superior anyway.

    As a compromise, how about a point bonus against enemy archers and those on siege equipment? That way, you are rewarded for your role, and it encourages that kind of support.



  • @Tankcommander:

    So a class should be sub optimal? This makes no sense to me.

    Granted that some long range shots are pure luck, since the enemy can easily dodge arrows, but when I shoot from the peasant village to a ballista and score a headshot, I expect more reward than just ten points, when I can charge in as a Vanguard with Zweihander without any effort and score three kills with one swing. This is poor play; easy mode at its worst.

    I don’t see at all how this encourages poor play. This is meant for crossbows, which are highly inferior to bows at all but long ranges. The added score does not promote poor gameplay - poor snipers still score badly, whereas good ones can actually get rewarded for the effort they are putting in. We shouldn’t have a class or option that is useless in the competive scheme.

    No, a class shouldn’t be encouraged to play sub-optimally.

    Crossbows still aren’t snipers. They might be better at long range than bows, but it still stands to reason they shouldn’t be shooting from across the map, even heavy crossbows.

    You’re right about one thing, though. We shouldn’t have a class that is useless in the competitive scene. However, giving a points bonus has no effect on balance. If Crossbows are underpowered, they should be buffed.

    I don’t think they are, though. I just think the Warbow is overpowered (and it will be nerfed next patch, supposedly).


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