Can one do anything against harassment/the community dying?



  • Hi everyone.

    I am sure most of you are familiar with what I am about to describe.
    Sadly, at some point in time, when you no longer constantly suck and have unlocked all of the weapons, especially the faster ones, people are going to start getting annoyed that you can kill them easier than they can kill you.
    The result?

    Teams of friends starting to call you “cheater” or “hacker” and throw out all kinds of insults. Often they can incite others as well even if there is no good reason (I for one would readily and instantly submit myself to any developer made anti-hacking tool / punkbuster equivalent /VAC watchdog program just to finally prove that I am a 100% “pure” client) to start a votekick on you.
    Sometimes it even goes through, especially if you dared to verbally argue against them. No matter if you have 0 idle time and < 6% team damage, no matter if you are of a high enough rank that you actually could be good.
    As long as they have their 1-2 foulmouthed friends also on the server, they can fake agreement and you’re now at the mercy of some 15 year old who doesn’t like that you killed him too much.

    You are basically screwed, and to add insult to injury, not only do you spend every minute from then on getting bombarded by cuss words and insults, but the kickvotes, as mentioned, may even kick you off of what had up to then been a very enjoyable server match rotation.

    I hate this fact to death, and I am seeing this become an issue more and more and more across the board.

    Now I am noting down steam profiles and taking screenshots of their verbal abuse as best I can, but I feel 100% helpless and at a loss about what to do about this.

    I simply want to be able to play and enjoy the game I bought and wish to support.
    But I do not want to support an environment where people can get away with active harassment of others for no other reason than their own sick entertainment.

    Its bad enough that almost every non-team chat has degraded into “4chan-speak” as it is, but when you just can’t join any official server any more for fear of being verbally harassed and votekicked back off, it becomes a real issue.

    If this were real life, I would file a harassment / mobbing suit. As this is cyberspace, where everyone feels safe to troll as much as they would like, I am feeling helpless and have to slowly watch the enjoyment drain out of my once favorite pastime of the last few months.

    Please, devs, others, is there something I can do, somewhere I can report these kind of people?
    And what evidence other than the screenshots can I get to prove I am not making this up?
    Maybe server operators can help as well?

    I don’t want the community go down the drain and become some kind of warped 4chan world where nothing is enjoyable anymore and everyone is just hacking, teamkilling and insulting everyone else “for the lulz”.

    To be perfectly honest, I would at least want the servers tagged “official” to be watched in some kind of fashion to make sure proven to be abusive profiles remain locked out for good.
    I don’t think that’s expecting too much, given that if they are official, you can likely inspect logfiles for proof of claims.

    I don’t know if this needs to be emphasized, but this is not a made up or fake or trolling post. I am really troubled by this and I want this to get better / change.



  • Working text mute should be coming soon.



  • To be perfectly honest, I would at least want the servers tagged “official” to be watched in some kind of fashion to make sure proven to be abusive profiles remain locked out for good.
    I don’t think that’s expecting too much, given that if they are official, you can likely inspect logfiles for proof of claims.

    That would be quite a tough job, and would require something on the scale of Blizzard’s GM department to “watch”. Something a tiny team of indie devs do not have.

    All Forum Mods here do however have Admin powers on OFFICIAL servers. Therefore if you’re encountering major abuse at the time, feel free to give us a shout if we’re online on Steam. (Check my sig for the Steam Moderator Group, in which we’re all listed). We can then come on, tell them to stop, or boot them off. :)



  • I will admit to raging pretty hard sometimes in this game and perhaps slurring out a profanity or two in the chat, but I’ve never called anyone a hacker and I wouldn’t classify it as personal harassment, but more as immature banter about my own perception game balance and certain playstyles :D Also hardly ever experienced anything beyond this towards myself. I very rarely get votekicked as well.

    It is like this in most online games, with varying degrees of how bad it is. The thing is to not take it seriously except in extreme cases of course (however I can understand that getting votekicked over no reason can be very annoying), the guy making the remarks is a random person who have no idea who you are, and any remarks about your personal qualifications, statue and so forth are thus baseless banter :D . If you’re older I can understand it, maybe it has something to do with my generation being so desensitized to language like this because it occurs in every online game, so many people don’t think much about it at all.



  • Given the relatively small number of mods/admins available to police servers it’s unlikely to see any major cleanup in terms of trolling and bashing. It’s just not feasible with so many people playing all the time, especially when so many of them are just “occasional ragers”. Growing up on games like Counter-Strike and Unreal Tournament you get used to the behavior eventually, and learn to tune it out (that is in no way a justification for it, of course).

    Besides, I’d prefer if the personal attacks and bullshitting that occurs here on the forums often takes priority for clean up anyway. ;)

    Oh, as others may have mentioned you can turn off Voice Chat under the Audio section of Configuration and the text window under the Input section. Cheers!



  • Yep, the community in this game has finally driven me off. Just played in a game on the Dost Though Hoist server, having to listen the entire game to some player named President Barack Obama spam chat all game and constantly use the n-word just killed it. I can’t take the toxic community, at this point, its worse then LoL.



  • @Killcount:

    Yep, the community in this game has finally driven me off. Just played in a game on the Dost Though Hoist server, having to listen the entire game to some player named President Barack Obama spam chat all game and constantly use the n-word just killed it. I can’t take the toxic community, at this point, its worse then LoL.

    Hey, while I certainly understand and respect your decision I’d ask you to think it over a bit. Some servers are filled with really toxic players, but others aren’t. Just look for the ones that seem either quiet or more mature in general and favorite those.

    Alternatively, just disable chat altogether and listen to music while you play. :)



  • The thing is, I like the chat in game. I’d say about a month ago, I used to constantly meet cool people, there would be fun discussions and jokes, it was a really enjoyable part of the game. I’m finding more and more, that all of the servers I used to like to play on, are now slowly being filled up by trolls. Sadly, while I like the game, it is way too buggy for me to want to stick around while having to deal with all of these people infesting the servers. I may check in once and a while from now on, but sadly, I just can’t handle the nastiness anymore.



  • @Killcount:

    Yep, the community in this game has finally driven me off. Just played in a game on the Dost Though Hoist server, having to listen the entire game to some player named President Barack Obama spam chat all game and constantly use the n-word just killed it. I can’t take the toxic community, at this point, its worse then LoL.

    You need to learn to ignore it. 99.9% of the people spamming stuff like that are not racist, they just have miserable lives and like to try to shock to get some kind of attention, even negative attention, they just want to TRY to rile people up just for their own amusement. This game is no different than any other game, plenty of trolls to go around.



  • @gregcau:

    @Killcount:

    Yep, the community in this game has finally driven me off. Just played in a game on the Dost Though Hoist server, having to listen the entire game to some player named President Barack Obama spam chat all game and constantly use the n-word just killed it. I can’t take the toxic community, at this point, its worse then LoL.

    You need to learn to ignore it. 99.9% of the people spamming stuff like that are not racist, they just have miserable lives and like to try to shock to get some kind of attention, even negative attention, they just want to TRY to rile people up just for their own amusement. This game is no different than any other game, plenty of trolls to go around.

    Trolls or not a person not racist would not do that, but yes, learn to ignore or play with like minded people and kick the guy, I usually opt for kicking those types of people and most of the time they get kicked.



  • For the people that say you just have to ignore it, I will disagree. For actual “Official” servers, it shouldn’t be too hard pay someone to police them, considering the success this game is having. I’m not so much talking about the foul language used in a general sense. But it is a rare thing to join any server on this game where there is not someone screaming racial, sexual, or just plain disgusting and hurtful remarks at someone else. This should not, and eventually, will not be tolerated. If it isn’t stopped, the OP is right, much of the player base will tire of it and dissappear, and it won’t take long.



  • @Twelvepak:

    For the people that say you just have to ignore it, I will disagree. For actual “Official” servers, it shouldn’t be too hard pay someone to police them, considering the success this game is having. I’m not so much talking about the foul language used in a general sense. But it is a rare thing to join any server on this game where there is not someone screaming racial, sexual, or just plain disgusting and hurtful remarks at someone else. This should not, and eventually, will not be tolerated. If it isn’t stopped, the OP is right, much of the player base will tire of it and dissappear, and it won’t take long.

    Frankly, I think the vast amount of bugs present and tweaks this game needs will drive players away faster than the (admittedly) somewhat terrible “community”. I hope they spend money hiring more programmers instead. :P



  • @Twelvepak:

    For the people that say you just have to ignore it, I will disagree. For actual “Official” servers, it shouldn’t be too hard pay someone to police them, considering the success this game is having.

    Why? Paying 2-3 people to sit in every official server around the clock, taking up a slot, just in-case some silly pre-teen calls someoone a name?

    Blizzard have an ENTIRE DEPARTMENT for this sort of thing, and they still don’t “police” servers, only act on reports.

    Players already have a multitude of tools to help them deal with undesirables. These include:

    • Calling an Admin through finding us in the mod group (if on an Official Server, and one of us is online on Steam)

    • Politely asking to stop.

    • Votekicking

    • Muting the specific player.

    • Turning off Chat.

    • Turning off voice.

    • Leaving the server.

    That’s more than enough ways to deal with someone just being a tit. Unless something is an official tournament or something, it shouldn’t need “policing”, and espesh expecting an indie game to waste resources on paying staff to do it.



  • Working text muting is coming soon. That’s really all that is needed.



  • I don’t see this “harassment” being a problem, because if one person (and i mean one) doesn’t like you they just have you vote kicked.
    example:
    I entered a game on a server that is very local to me (so i had a ping of 25) and demolished a guy really well and he was upset about it. I didn’t say anything, however, when i killed him again he became enraged and set a vote kick and said on voice chat that i was a team killer on a previous game and that we should get rid of him and so everyone voted me off……
    So i waited for that session to end and rejoined (because this server is VERY close to where i live and i want to enjoy the good ping) and i ask people to observe if i do anything wrong before i get vote kicked and they just all vote kick me anyway.
    Sometimes when i rejoin that server (days later) and that person is on he will have me vote kicked before i’m even able to pick a class and spawn a character.

    So thats a pretty nasty abuse of the system and theres not much anyone can do about it.



  • the vote system is based on the idea that with an adequate number of people participating the more reasonable decision will be more common and likely. Yet one challenge that will often undermine this expectation is the type of culture which can typically develop on populated servers. Rather than voting for informed and reasonable decisions the opposite frequently occurs and basically amounts to mob rule (voting purely out of self-interest at the full expense of a set of social principles).

    unfortunately this is happening all the time and from my perspective is becoming just as commonplace as voting to kick the evident team killer. I think some adjustments are necessary but can see how doing so presents another set of challenges. I would recommend putting in a set of vote conditions that weight votes, such as damage to team members, being afk, ping, ‘hacking’ and maybe even a chat monitor (controversial). This way when a vote occurs if none of these or other conditions are met then a greater number of votes are required. Conversely this design might function to place greater weight on individual votes but I think that would inadvertently assist those who choose to misuse the system’s potential shortcomings. Another feature I would recommend to complement a system of this sort is to add a reason for voting that has to be checked (team killing, ping etc) so that if a complaint (such as with Giantyak’s example) is made and it is possible to do so moderators can evaluate whether conditions were genuinely met or not. If clearly there is no apparent reason then the voters involved take a reduction to the value of their votes on the specific server where the event occurred.

    it can almost go without saying there are numerous potential problems with this type of design but I’m inclined to suppose most would stem from implementation and I think with refinement the current voting method could be improved so as to at least partially limit the frequent misuse that is becoming increasingly prevalent and even normative on some servers.



  • Rather than discuss a big fix:

    I’ll suggest that you give our servers a go (ping allowing). In particular; you will find our 24 player server backed up by effective admin most days between 18.00 to midnight GMT during the week and longer at the weekends.

    Details on our website… link in my sig.



  • Yes, ignore the assholes.

    The main weakness of trolls is being ignored. They feel like killing themselves if no one talks to them. :(



  • @Nyarlathotep:

    @Killcount:

    Yep, the community in this game has finally driven me off. Just played in a game on the Dost Though Hoist server, having to listen the entire game to some player named President Barack Obama spam chat all game and constantly use the n-word just killed it. I can’t take the toxic community, at this point, its worse then LoL.

    Hey, while I certainly understand and respect your decision I’d ask you to think it over a bit. Some servers are filled with really toxic players, but others aren’t. Just look for the ones that seem either quiet or more mature in general and favorite those.

    Alternatively, just disable chat altogether and listen to music while you play. :)

    Our server has zero tolerance for what you’re describing and people engaging in that crap are banned. There are plenty of cool Chiv players out there to fill our server once all the dimwits are banned away. If it literally takes banning an entire team of racists/homophobes, I will do it and the server will soon recover its player base. BTW, that doesn’t mean we ban often…just that we’ll do it when it’s necessary to keep the server mellow and enjoyable.

    Only problem is that there are still stability issues plaguing some servers, awkward admin tools as well as a lack of time for our admins to be online. I’m usually around late nights Thursday, Friday & Sunday after I fire up Netflix to babysit my wife.

    Anyways, if you’re West Coast jump on and you won’t have garbage like that to deal with.



  • @BobT36:

    Players already have a multitude of tools to help them deal with undesirables. These include:

    • Calling an Admin through finding us in the mod group (if on an Official Server, and one of us is online on Steam)

      This is the one and only effective one and requires someone with powers to be around.
      I will make a note of this though and if things really get out of hand get in touch together with a screenshot of the log.

      As for:

    • Politely asking to stop.
      -Trolls are encouraged to troll even harder by this.

    • Votekicking
      -The one night I have in mind, I encountered three people who are all steam friends. They encouraged each other, they ganged up on me with the insults, and, just by a hair, they almost managed to votekick ME off the server instead, simply because 3 people saying “hax” works better than one guy saying “How on earth then do I just have a 1.0 KDR and nobody has seen me hack but these 3”.

    • Muting the specific player.

    • Turning off Chat.

    • Turning off voice.
      These three all do nothing against getting kicked to death by your teammates, flinched intentionally, hurt at every spawn rotation etc. You all seem to be forgetting that harassment in Chivalry does not stop at the text or voice level, although that’s already bad enough.

      I have literally been kicked to death between 2 abusers on my own team before.

    • Leaving the server.
      This just means they’ve won and I now am no longer playing the game I paid for on an official server with good ping.

      Basically this last recommendation can be paraphrased, if done harshly, with: if you don’t enjoy being abused while playing the game, don’t play the game.

      Unless something is an official tournament or something, it shouldn’t need “policing”, and espesh expecting an indie game to waste resources on paying staff to do it.

      I don’t expect 24 hour surveillance, but I asked about a way with which I can prove that repeated offenders are prevented from doing so again. This can be done asynchronously with proof and reports, and only requires one person to have a look at a properly formulated report maybe once a week.
      The evidence should be compelling in some way though, and I was wondering how that can be done.
      I don’t want to have to have FRAPS running every time I play just in case someone starts something so that I can videoproof it, but I also can’t think of much more ways than screenshotting the log and listing names and screens on the forum or via PM to the mods.

      If what is happening here is that the official game developers and maintainers are saying “Its too hard and expensive to stop people from repeatedly abusing other people so we’ll just not care, deal with it or leave”, then that would be a shame.

      Doesn’t it just take someone who got abused proving enough proof and an official server wide ban of repeat offenders and there you have an at least minimally functioning solution?
      Surely thats a near zero cost in time and manpower investment if the proof is solid(and, since it is done from the guy who was hurt, its also “free”), as placing a banline should be a thing of a few clicks?

      It just can’t be that the cyberbullys rule the online world for good and we’re all helpless to stop it.


Log in to reply