Reflective Team Damage, idea from Sharantil



  • Tired of playing a TO game and when u get in a 1v1 with an enemy then a stupid fucking teammate LMB spams into ur fight nearly killing or killing u then dies anyway in the fight. Another thing that pisses me off is a noob archer looking at ur fight and thinks he’ll be able to save u or some shit, shoots into ur fight and ends up killing u. This idea i got from sharantil, an extremely experienced player www.youtube.com/user/sharantil is reflective team damage, keep team damage to maintain that aspect of realisticism in the game, but make it so if a teammate hits u, it will not only hurt u(for 50% damage just like it is now) but also hit the person who hit u for full damage, maybe 50%. either way i feel it is needed in this game, to encourage teammates to be more careful with there swings and arrows/bolts/javelins/pebble.



  • This often has been suggested and I have a little situation to perhaps show you that this is by far a perfect solution.

    Imagine, you are fighting two enemies at once. While one is not so skilled and quickly taken care of, the other is more of a fight for you, he manages to bring you down to very low health. Suddenly, Swing McTeamkill decides to join in, and right as you swing at your foe, he leaps in heroicly, blocking the attack.

    Now normally, this would wound Swing McTeamkill, but with reflective damage, it will now kill you.

    How often in game do you see people overcommiting to a kill? Where 1 poor bastard, already loosing his fight, gets jumped by 3 Knights, 2 Vanguards and a Man At Arms?



  • Even when your careful you hit your own team. I don’t want to die because some retard got in my way I don’t want to lose any health. As I could lose enough for a strike to kill me.

    Some weapons would be completely avoided.

    Reflective damage is a bad idea.



  • Voted yes



  • @SharpshotSid:

    This often has been suggested and I have a little situation to perhaps show you that this is by far a perfect solution.

    Imagine, you are fighting two enemies at once. While one is not so skilled and quickly taken care of, the other is more of a fight for you, he manages to bring you down to very low health. Suddenly, Swing McTeamkill decides to join in, and right as you swing at your foe, he leaps in heroicly, blocking the attack.

    Now normally, this would wound Swing McTeamkill, but with reflective damage, it will now kill you.

    How often in game do you see people overcommiting to a kill? Where 1 poor bastard, already loosing his fight, gets jumped by 3 Knights, 2 Vanguards and a Man At Arms?

    There’s a problem with this. Often “Swing McTeamkill” will wound you far more often than you’ll accidentally wound him. Assuming you have a modicum of skill, you have a much greater chance to re-direct your swing or cancel, than you do of dodging or parrying him.

    I feel this is a great idea, especially if it was implemented in the form of a server option. Much like forced first person, server owners could choose which friendly fire mode they want to use.

    It worked great in M&B, I see no reason why it wouldn’t work great here as well.

    @lemonater47:

    Even when your careful you hit your own team. I don’t want to die because some retard got in my way I don’t want to lose any health. As I could lose enough for a strike to kill me.

    Some weapons would be completely avoided.

    Reflective damage is a bad idea.

    And I don’t want to die because other people feel it’s a good idea to swoop in and try to steal kills. It’s far harder to jump into someone’s swing than it is to hit them. By virtue of this, it would cut down on griefing while still affording a penalty to poor swings. It punishes the individual for his mistakes, not his team.

    And if you still don’t like it after trying it, you can just join a server that doesn’t have it enabled.



  • This may seem like a good idea but it really isn’t.

    Trust me its a really bad idea. It will ruin the concepts of the game. This is semi realistic too.



  • No.

    I encounter daily many suicidal archers that run to play in places where big men fight. And then they die. One does not simply walk into my zweihander swing.



  • @lemonater47:

    This may seem like a good idea but it really isn’t.

    Trust me its a really bad idea. It will ruin the concepts of the game. This is semi realistic too.

    You haven’t really given any counter-arguments to my points. And you should know by now realism arguments have no weight here.

    Especially considering the fact it’s a server option (according to my proposal). I’m not convinced it’d be anything but a net positive addition.



  • @NikolaiLev:

    @lemonater47:

    This may seem like a good idea but it really isn’t.

    Trust me its a really bad idea. It will ruin the concepts of the game. This is semi realistic too.

    You haven’t really given any counter-arguments to my points. And you should know by now realism arguments have no weight here.

    Especially considering the fact it’s a server option (according to my proposal). I’m not convinced it’d be anything but a net positive addition.

    People will get pissed. Reflective damage in a high team damage game. Reflective damage is there as punishment for those that deliberately kill others. Accedental team kills are part of the game. I try not to do them but I am not particularly bothered if it happens to me accedently. Noobs will just do it. Tell them to ease up on the left click. And with practice their strikes will be more accurate and they will be more careful.

    An what about with siege weapons or any ranged weapon for that matter. Compared to bullets these travel very slowly and a lot can change and its often unpredictable. No one would use seige weapons and there will be far less archers or any throwable weapons going around. While most people think archers are a pain they can be very useful at times.

    It won’t train people up. As soon as a player leaves a reflective server and joins a normal one the player will be less careful even less care as they were before a they know they won’t hurt themselves hitting teammates. it won’t solve the problem. Reflective damage never has. Its psychological.



  • I thnik that 50% ff reduction is enough in this case. Reflecting dmg would surelly made some strange situations i.e. imagine heavly wounded guy running to help his friend whos been overhelmed by 3 enemies and when he gets there he accidentally hits his friend after witch he falls himself not even touched by those 3 guys from opposing team… That would be ridiculous… If i were one of those 3, i would surelly die right after but from laughing… ;)

    We already have team dmg % shown while making a kickvote and thats good solution for me. Another thing someone mentioned here is that in that type of fighting friendly fire is something that make this game somehow more attractive :)

    My vote goes for no.



  • @lemonater47:

    People will get pissed. Reflective damage in a high team damage game. Reflective damage is there as punishment for those that deliberately kill others. Accedental team kills are part of the game. I try not to do them but I am not particularly bothered if it happens to me accedently. Noobs will just do it. Tell them to ease up on the left click. And with practice their strikes will be more accurate and they will be more careful.

    An what about with siege weapons or any ranged weapon for that matter. Compared to bullets these travel very slowly and a lot can change and its often unpredictable. No one would use seige weapons and there will be far less archers or any throwable weapons going around. While most people think archers are a pain they can be very useful at times.

    Reflective damage is there as punishment for accidental tks as well. Team damage is already punishing; it just punishes someone else instead of you. That’s lopsided.

    I doubt this very much. Less siege weapon usage? Fine with me. Fewer archers? I really doubt that. Fewer reckless archers, maybe.

    @lemonater47:

    It won’t train people up. As soon as a player leaves a reflective server and joins a normal one the player will be less careful even less care as they were before a they know they won’t hurt themselves hitting teammates. it won’t solve the problem. Reflective damage never has. Its psychological.

    I can’t agree with this at all. I argue that a person will be more careful because they are being punished for their own mistakes. They’ll be motivated to actually change their playstyle, whereas currently a “Please watch your swings” is often met with a “lol deal with it” attitude.



  • It is a terrible idea, if server admins want to implement it I have no problem.

    So if you fire the catapult and kill 2 of your own, 2 of the enemy does that insta kill the catapulter - how dumb would that be.

    There is already punishment for a team of vanguard noobs - they lose the match. 100% reflective would further punish them.

    As said before if you are one-on-one and someone runs in front of my swing because they are over zealous to get a kill how is it your fault?

    I feel bad if I accidentally hit one of my own, its punishment enough for me.

    If they really wanted an option I’ve suggested in the past a face palm animation which temporarily covers their eyes blinding them and allows anyone to see who the culprit was. Be kind of funny too.



  • @gregcau:

    So if you fire the catapult and kill 2 of your own, 2 of the enemy does that insta kill the catapulter - how dumb would that be.

    Considering that a one-for-one trade is not worth it (especially when you could be up turning that into a 3v2), I still have no trouble with this.

    @gregcau:

    There is already punishment for a team of vanguard noobs - they lose the match. 100% reflective would further punish them.

    Except this punishes the entire team. Not just the teamwounder.

    @gregcau:

    As said before if you are one-on-one and someone runs in front of my swing because they are over zealous to get a kill how is it your fault?

    Just the same, if you are one-on-one and someone runs in and hits you to steal the kill, it’s their fault. And I know for a fact this happens to me far more than any other situation.

    @gregcau:

    I feel bad if I accidentally hit one of my own, its punishment enough for me.

    You’re in the grinding minority, then. I believe you; I feel bad hitting others as well (which is why I want this, so I’m punished for my mistake rather than a teammate). But most people don’t. Some even readily blame you for “running into their swing.”

    As a final note: remember this would be affected by the server’s FF percentage, which defaults to 50%. So it’s not like you’d be getting killed by this all the time, unless you really don’t watch your swings.



  • No, just no.
    One guy damaging his team is bad enough.

    I like the concept of having friendly fire and be careful where you aim at. I liked AoC for it and I like Chivalry for it. It just makes the right feel. Messing with friendly fire (other than barely noticeable multipliers) just takes away the feel of a game.



  • Some servers have reduced team damage, just play on those servers if it bothers you that much.
    Personally, I generally play as MaA, and anytime my team is ganging up on someone I either hit, then dodge out, or just don’t help them at all. You don’t need that many people on one person.
    Make sure you are the smart one and take a step back, then clean up the mess if you team screws up.



  • Official servers: no.
    Private servers: optional.

    Personally, I don’t like the idea. The current way is fine with me. Just my opinion, not saying the other side isn’t right. Tking is annoying as heck.



  • @Slaughtervomit:

    Official servers: no.
    Private servers: optional.

    Personally, I don’t like the idea. The current way is fine with me. Just my opinion, not saying the other side isn’t right. Tking is annoying as heck.

    Deliberate team killing is annoying. But that’s why votekick is there.

    Accidental teamkills aren’t as much. As half the time its my fault for getting in the way.

    Its part of the game it defines the game sets it apart from the others.



  • It’s easier to stop yourself from accidentally hitting team mates than it is to stop team mates accidently hitting you.

    Right now errant swings punish someone else. Reflective damage would mean errant swings would only punish you, because it’s your own fault and no one made you hit your team mate.

    The number of times you will accidentally hit someone on your team will be far less than the number of times an over zealous team mate will heedlessly join a 1v1 fight you’re having and kill you. I’m hit by team mates on average 10 to 15 times each game. The number of times I hit a team mate without it absolutely being my fault is maybe 1 to 0.
    If you have an attitude of “teamkilling doesn’t happen enough to bother me” then you shouldn’t be bothered at all if once in a blue moon someone jumps in front of your swing and you take damage as a result.

    Every game I’ve played with reflective team damage has been absolutely wonderful and the system has worked perfectly. You barely notice it and it doesn’t change gameplay, and if you happen to accidentally hit a team mate then you have no one to blame except yourself 99% of the time.



  • @PedroFromHell:

    It’s easier to stop yourself from accidentally hitting team mates than it is to stop team mates accidently hitting you.

    Right now errant swings punish someone else. Reflective damage would mean errant swings would only punish you, because it’s your own fault and no one made you hit your team mate.

    The number of times you will accidentally hit someone on your team will be far less than the number of times an over zealous team mate will heedlessly join a 1v1 fight you’re having and kill you. I’m hit by team mates on average 10 to 15 times each game. The number of times I hit a team mate without it absolutely being my fault is maybe 1 to 0.
    If you have an attitude of “teamkilling doesn’t happen enough to bother me” then you shouldn’t be bothered at all if once in a blue moon someone jumps in front of your swing and you take damage as a result.

    Every game I’ve played with reflective team damage has been absolutely wonderful and the system has worked perfectly. You barely notice it and it doesn’t change gameplay, and if you happen to accidentally hit a team mate then you have no one to blame except yourself 99% of the time.

    I’m glad someone who agrees with me has finally chimed in. I know I’m not the only one who likes the idea. :D



  • It would be even better with no teamdamage at all, than with reflective.
    The idea of teamdamage is, that when you hit someone of your team - You make DAMAGE at your TEAMmate!
    Whith reflective teamdamage, teamdamage would make no sense!


Log in to reply