Taking damage when you parry with a light weapon



  • As says the title of this thread, I’d like to point out how I feel like light weapons should be punished when parrying heavy weapons.

    The basic idea is that heavy weapons should do little damage when they get parried by a lighter weapon. By little, I’m thinking of something between 5 and 15 damage.

    In a perfect world, every weapon would have a weight attached to it that determines how much damage it can deal when it gets parried, depending also on the weight of the weapon that parries. It would also be different from overheads to stabs, could be lower whether you’re at the beginning, the end or the middle of the swing. It is obvious that a lot could be added.

    This way, the point is that dodging would be more rewarding that parrying. It sounds good to me as I consider to dodge much harder than to parry. Me loves ducking :3

    But I’m not asking the devs to go into so much work. Perhaps it would not even be that great. I’d be quite happy with a few weapon weight classes, let’s say 3: light, medium and heavy. I have not given a lot of thinking yet about which weapon should be in which class, but the general rules would be that swift one-handed weapons are light, most two-handed weapons are medium and a couple of weapons (like knight maul, perhaps flails) are heavy.

    Thus, to parry a medium weapon with a light weapon would do 5 damage, and a heavy weapon would do 10 or 15. To parry a heavy weapon with a medium could do 5 or 10 also. These figures are mere examples.

    As I said before, this would punish people to dare parrying while, since they have a faster weapon than their opponent, they should rather use mobility to dodge and find openings. I don’t accept the fact that players can parry with their little daggers in complete safety. Obviously and as some might have already guessed, I am a knight player.

    To implement such a mechanics into the game would probably hurt archers and maa more than other classes (though knight and vanguards can also hold light weapons on the battlefield in a very viable way) but I feel like it is needed to make people choose more carefully when to parry and when to keep distance. It would also prevent very low hp players to just survive by parrying over and over until support arrives. And eventually, it would reward knight and vanguards when they manage to force their opponents into a parry, for it’s always risky to make the first move if your opponent has a faster weapon that you.

    An alternative would be to make weapon weight differences cause knock back when parrying, in a similar way as sprint attacks do. Or we would go with both knock back and damage. Who said overkill? Or perhaps daze, or longer recovery. I’m mostly in favor of the damage mechanics, but I’d like to know what everyone thinks.

    As this a suggestion for the devs, I highly encourage people to give me some feedback about it. What do you think? Good for it adds more depth into the game? Useless for feints are already here to punish early parries? Stupid for I am a noob knight player who hates maa and despise archers? (oh yes I do).

    Go on =)



  • N… No. Just no



  • I know it’s annoying when an archer parries your rampant LMB spam and then violates you with his cudgel, but seriously, don’t try break the game please



  • Nope. It’s punishing you for successfully parrying. Stamina drain is increased if you parry with a light weapon so there shouldn’t be any more penalties.



  • trying to nerf the already weak archers :(



  • They had this in Age of Chivalry. I don’t see why it isn’t in the retail game…



  • No.



  • @c4ndlejack:

    No.

    So your saying a 30 pound sledgehammer “should” be able to be blocked by a measly dagger without the blocker taking damage? I wish i was living in your world.



  • @Cheesus:

    @c4ndlejack:

    No.

    So your saying a 30 pound sledgehammer “should” be able to be blocked by a measly dagger without the blocker taking damage? I wish i was living in your world.

    It’s for game balance. And and a knight is going to beat an archer anyway unless your stupid. They actually want people to use daggers.



  • @Cheesus:

    @c4ndlejack:

    No.

    So your saying a 30 pound sledgehammer “should” be able to be blocked by a measly dagger without the blocker taking damage? I wish i was living in your world.

    I agree with you, buddy. Unfortunately, some people like their games to be silly and unbalanced.



  • @Cheesus:

    @c4ndlejack:

    No.

    So your saying a 30 pound sledgehammer “should” be able to be blocked by a measly dagger without the blocker taking damage? I wish i was living in your world.

    If you want to talk realism, hammers don’t weigh 30 lbs. They would be almost unusable. And you don’t block a hammer with a dagger, you redirect it. That’s what a parry is. The animation isn’t really accurate for a parry because it looks like you bounce their weapon back, but it’s a game. You’re not going to have perfect animations.

    If you want to make it even more realistic, smaller weapons should require 0 windup, but getting stabbed 10 times/second wouldn’t make a very fun game.



  • First of all I think this could save a lot of lives in FFA during those annoying moments you are hitting a turtle then backshooted.
    And if it was for realism, you cant hurt a plate armored knight with a dagger, nor parry, deal with it.
    Getting some damages through parry may on another hand bring more flinches problems.



  • @c4ndlejack:

    And you don’t block a hammer with a dagger, you redirect it. That’s what a parry is.

    This. if your talking real life it is quite easy to deflect larger weapons with smaller ones. Lets say my friend has a 25 lbs 4 foot long club and i have a 6 inch dagger (har) For instance AFTER his windup which ACTUALLY occurs in melee combat he swings however the force of his swing is already sent into the direct he chose he is simply putting more force behind it (think overhead)

    In order to direct his attack i would move my dagger across his downward swing bringing it to the left or right of me. This time i slash at his weapon to the left causing it to fall to the left of me or his right leaving him open for an attack. You do not take damage from deflecting or parrying WITH A WEAPON.

    To be more exact If you use a shield and take a hard hit with it your forearm,wrist, elbow MAY very well get broken just because of the force traveling through your shield.



  • @Pitchfork:

    This. if your talking real life it is quite easy to deflect larger weapons with smaller ones.

    Just as a side note: No, it is not. It works mainly with sword-like weapons whose weight difference is not too large. You can’t “redirect” a twohanded sword with a dagger. You would be very lucky if you manged to do that with a broadsword. You can’t do anything like that against an axe.

    In order to direct his attack i would move my [6 inch] dagger across his downward swing [with 25 pound club] bringing it to the left or right of me.

    You people really do have some funny ideas about how parry works in real life.

    To be more exact If you use a shield and take a hard hit with it your forearm,wrist, elbow MAY very well get broken just because of the force traveling through your shield.

    I doubt that, more likely the shield would sooner crack. And of course that is why you can work with different angles.



  • Again, i wish i was in your world where you’re able to “deflect” larger weapons with smaller weapons. I don’t need to explain why “deflecting” doesn’t work in real life (Unless you’re a super human ninja).

    Just look at history, have you noticed that melee weapons had gotten larger and longer over time. This means that shorter and thinner weapons were becoming obsolete in the battlefield other than being a hidden weapon or self defense weapon.

    Hell you can test out how larger weapons overwhelm a smaller weapon. Go outside with a friend with 1 large branch and a small stick. Now have your friend hit you with the larger branch with a good swing. Good luck deflecting.

    A dagger doesn’t have enough leverage to block/redirect the force of a warhammer or a maul. It will most likely bend, shatter, or your wrist/fingers wont be able to handle the force. There’s a reason why you see painting of mighty warriors wielding large axes and bastard swords. Not measly daggers and letter openers.



  • @lemonater47:

    It’s for game balance.

    4the sake of Balance.
    quite a mindfuk huh :|



  • @Pitchfork:

    @c4ndlejack:

    And you don’t block a hammer with a dagger, you redirect it. That’s what a parry is.

    This. if your talking real life it is quite easy to deflect larger weapons with smaller ones. Lets say my friend has a 25 lbs 4 foot long club and i have a 6 inch dagger (har) For instance AFTER his windup which ACTUALLY occurs in melee combat he swings however the force of his swing is already sent into the direct he chose he is simply putting more force behind it (think overhead)

    In order to direct his attack i would move my dagger across his downward swing bringing it to the left or right of me. This time i slash at his weapon to the left causing it to fall to the left of me or his right leaving him open for an attack. You do not take damage from deflecting or parrying WITH A WEAPON.

    To be more exact If you use a shield and take a hard hit with it your forearm,wrist, elbow MAY very well get broken just because of the force traveling through your shield.

    wow that people are ……
    what the hell or where the hell are you living in? o0
    do you even manage to bind your own shoes?
    Ohh make sure you dont poop yourself today



  • In all seriousness To give lighter weapons parry penalties is punishing them for doing a good job blocking. Not to mention it would basically imbalance the game even more so towards knights and vanguards especially at lower levels. I do not think there is a solid way to implement this idea without 2 classes being nerfed and 2 of them being buffed. Which i personally do not think should happen as playing lighter armored classes takes more skill (arguably) because you die easier.



  • @Pitchfork:

    In all seriousness To give lighter weapons parry penalties is punishing them for doing a good job blocking. Not to mention it would basically imbalance the game even more so towards knights and vanguards especially at lower levels. I do not think there is a solid way to implement this idea without 2 classes being nerfed and 2 of them being buffed. Which i personally do not think should happen as playing lighter armored classes takes more skill (arguably) because you die easier.

    A very vague explanation of what a “light” weapon is. Are we talking about those small daggers or the swords and 1 handed weapons? If it is a sword, sure it should definitely block without penalty.

    If its a dagger. Well first of all, why are you charging into battle with a dagger. And if there is a penalty it should be about 1/3 of damage taken on the blocker. Don’t say that archers will be nerfed since its their main job to stay away from the fight and always stay mobile with their bows.



  • @Cheesus:

    Again, i wish i was in your world where you’re able to “deflect” larger weapons with smaller weapons. I don’t need to explain why “deflecting” doesn’t work in real life (Unless you’re a super human ninja).

    @osta2501:

    @giantyak:

    If a game is realistic enough that anyone can sit down and play and have reasonable expectations about what should and shouldn’t happen then they will enjoy the game more.

    I think that’s exactly where the game is right now: a good pinch of intuitive realism with a dash of game design balancing. For the sake of discussion, let us make a list of what is realistic, and what is game design balance. Feel free to correct me or add you own:

    Game design balance (what is not realistic, but is necessary for balance)
    Tiny blades can parry big fat hammahs
    Running in full body plate armor is no more exhausting than running in clothes
    Feinting with a huge maul is similarly fast and easy as feinting with a dagger
    Shield users get dazed if they are kicked while they have their shield raised
    Parry, unlike block, is an animation that cannot be held
    You can kill a knight with your bare fists
    Two-hand weapons are not interrupted if they already started their swing
    Knights can withstand an arrow headshot and live

    Realism (what someone might expect from a 2012 melee game)
    Parrying a big weapon with a tiny weapon costs more stamina
    Swinging a little weapon costs less stamina than swinging a big weapon
    The weapons have a variety of different attacks for your personal type of offensive play
    Different part of the body will take more or less damage
    Weapons behave with real-time swings effects
    Heavier weapons deal more damage, but are usually slower, and vice-versa
    Characters with more armor can sustain more hits

    Right now dagger blocking works. It’s a good part of the game. Having heavy weapons damage through parries would remove too much balance for unneeded realism. Archer dagger fights are rare enough, I don’t know why you would want to make them obsolete.


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