Stamina



  • Since this patch I feel that stamina is less important overall to fights since you can regain it very quickly by crouching, also the fact that a knight can run himself out of stamina, take a hit and keep on blocking also diminishes the importance of stamina. I propose a removal of the crouch regeneration since it buffs offense more than defense and for the MAA, allows him to recklessly use dodge and fight again very quickly using the increased regeneration.

    In the previous patch, stamina was more important than it is now and for skirmishers to be effective they had to use their stamina wisely and for the people who ran out the enemy team would benefit from it by having them be out of the fight, or not be as effective in the fight. It was a good balancing act and running out of stamina wasn’t all too common but with these changes MAA especially can mostly dodge around, get enough space to regenerate, and do it all over again faster than they would’ve been able to.

    I would like the crouch regeneration removed and the block stamina gain be enough for 1 swing or 1 block. Why should a person who ran out of stamina get to feint and possibly kill another player when he was presumably outplayed/spammed enough so that he ran out? The previous block knockback actually threw him far away from the fight who either died from teammate support, or was forced to sit back and regain his stamina. I actually do like the current one over the previous version but the 30 stamina gain is very silly and you definitely should be punished harder for running out of stamina.
    Knights with shields can take a hit and keep on blocking (enough to buy even more time), MAA who haven’t been touched can usually take a hit and dodge out.
    It’s also important to note that with a shield vs a maul (halberd stab as well), you can block the maul forever since you never run out of stamina, and the maul is too slow to swing. Compared to how the maul was able to stunlock, but the opponent never got stamina back.

    Also another thing that would be nice is a more accurate representation of when someone is out of stamina since a person shouldn’t be gasping for air out of stamina and still be able to whiff a swing and block perfectly.

    Also a bit off topic but a small change that I think will be good for feints is having a character soundbyte play every time an actual swing happens so that people can somewhat judge whether it’s an actual swing or not. Also fixing desyncs, ghost swings (which is kinda in the same vein), and dane axe would be nice too.

    In spite of all this, if I had to only have just 1 change, I would love to see the increased crouching stamina regen removed, since I feel the normal stamina regen was perfect.

    Primary goal of these changes:
    To create more awareness of stamina by giving them a choice between continued combat with risk of running out of stamina or disengaging and regaining stamina, as well as balancing defense vs offense without affecting either negatively.

    Summary of changes:
    Make stamina a thing again by removing the increased stamina gain with crouch and lowering the stamina gained from a no stamina block. If the stamina thing is really an issue (which I don’t think it was) having a small increase to standing stamina regeneration (more than current, less than crouching) might be good.
    Eliminate the separate parry times between 1h and 2h and make them even more responsive than they are now so players can react and defend faster.
    Make players more aware of the loss of stamina by making the sounds more accurate.



  • Very very good points. Never liked the crouching stamina gain. I always see people running a few metres away from me mid-battle, just to crouch and regain all their stamina. Nice summary aswell. :D



  • @kwazi:

    Since this patch I feel that stamina is less important overall to fights since you can regain it very quickly by crouching, also the fact that a knight can run himself out of stamina, take a hit and keep on blocking also diminishes the importance of stamina. I propose a removal of the crouch regeneration since it buffs offense more than defense and for the MAA, allows him to recklessly use dodge and fight again very quickly using the increased regeneration.

    In the previous patch, stamina was more important than it is now and for skirmishers to be effective they had to use their stamina wisely and for the people who ran out the enemy team would benefit from it by having them be out of the fight, or not be as effective in the fight. It was a good balancing act and running out of stamina wasn’t all too common but with these changes MAA especially can mostly dodge around, get enough space to regenerate, and do it all over again faster than they would’ve been able to.

    I would like the crouch regeneration removed and the block stamina gain be enough for 1 swing or 1 block. Why should a person who ran out of stamina get to feint and possibly kill another player when he was presumably outplayed/spammed enough so that he ran out? The previous block knockback actually threw him far away from the fight who either died from teammate support, or was forced to sit back and regain his stamina. I actually do like the current one over the previous version but the 30 stamina gain is very silly and you definitely should be punished harder for running out of stamina.
    Knights with shields can take a hit and keep on blocking (enough to buy even more time), MAA who haven’t been touched can usually take a hit and dodge out.
    It’s also important to note that with a shield vs a maul (halberd stab as well), you can block the maul forever since you never run out of stamina, and the maul is too slow to swing. Compared to how the maul was able to stunlock, but the opponent never got stamina back.

    Also another thing that would be nice is a more accurate representation of when someone is out of stamina since a person shouldn’t be gasping for air out of stamina and still be able to whiff a swing and block perfectly.

    Also a bit off topic but a small change that I think will be good for feints is having a character soundbyte play every time an actual swing happens so that people can somewhat judge whether it’s an actual swing or not. Also fixing desyncs, ghost swings (which is kinda in the same vein), and dane axe would be nice too.

    In spite of all this, if I had to only have just 1 change, I would love to see the increased crouching stamina regen removed, since I feel the normal stamina regen was perfect.

    Primary goal of these changes:
    To create more awareness of stamina by giving them a choice between continued combat with risk of running out of stamina or disengaging and regaining stamina, as well as balancing defense vs offense without affecting either negatively.

    Summary of changes:
    Make stamina a thing again by removing the increased stamina gain with crouch and lowering the stamina gained from a no stamina block. If the stamina thing is really an issue (which I don’t think it was) having a small increase to standing stamina regeneration (more than current, less than crouching) might be good.
    Eliminate the separate parry times between 1h and 2h and make them even more responsive than they are now so players can react and defend faster.
    Make players more aware of the loss of stamina by making the sounds more accurate.

    Seems like you’re making the same mistake a lot of people make where you are assuming that rules exist where they don’t. You have all these beliefs as to what Stamina does and what it should do and what it should punish and why and you give no actual solid reasons for why you believe those things should be that way or what good it does for the game.

    Additionally you seem to have a petulant attitude about people running out of Stamina going as far as saying they would have been outplayed or reckless to have run out of it. I can give tou three situations in which a good player may run out of stamina:

    1: They have been fighting for a prolonged amount of time.
    2: They have been fighting multiple players at once.
    3: They made the SMART decision to prioritize an objective over waiting to regain stamina.

    All of those things are examples not of someone being reckless or outplayed but of them playing the game well so the mindset of “you should be punished hard because if you run out of stamina you must have played really bad” seems to not be valid.

    A lot of people seem to view Stamina as an extra health bar that should essentially render a person dead when it’s depleted.

    Based on how the game functions right now, Stamina seems to serve a purpose of providing short-term control of skirmishes. It doesn’t seem to, nor does it feel like it needs to, function as a static limit to an encounter. More like a pacer. If a MAA can dash and dash and dash andc then crouch for a bit and do it again… that’s fine. His dashes are his main game. His core functions are limited to short bursts of trickiness should he decide to go all out like that. If he chooses to waste 60%+ of his stamina dodging back out of harms way in order to regain stamina well… he’s not being very effective at actually taking someone down so… who cares?



  • @Matti:

    Very very good points. Never liked the crouching stamina gain. I always see people running a few metres away from me mid-battle, just to crouch and regain all their stamina. Nice summary aswell. :D

    So, run after him and force him to play with low stamina. It’s not like tapping your crouch key instantly fills half your stamina bar.



  • This is what this patch is all about. A combination of bugs, parry nerf, kick daze, and stamina safety nets make playing defensively a joke.

    @NabsterHax:

    So, run after him and force him to play with low stamina.

    Even the DAG duel tournament turned into a crab battle. The devs really need to remove the stamina boost.



  • OP, have you tried running from a melee before? Here are the 2 possible results:

    1. You get a sword up your backside.

    2. You manage to get away, but your opponent was finished off before you can get back enough stam.

    Your concept of running from a fight to regain stamina is completely impractical.



  • You don’t need to run from a fight to regain stamina, you just crouch mid duel and your stamina regens faster than normal, then on top of that, everytime you’re out of stamina, just parry the next attack for 30 free stamina; you might get hit, but generally only if you weren’t knocked back enough or the opponent has a fast weapon.



  • Crouching to regenerate stamina quickly is fine, and helps fights without feints not be determined by stamina.

    However I wouldn’t mind if the old no-stamina penalties were introduced. I hate that you regain stamina on blocking a hit with none left. Instead of stunning a player, perhaps parrying would not block all damage? And for blocking with a shield with no stamina left, you’d have to use it like a parry where you could not hold it up permanently.



  • The old system, pre-CU1 patch meant you could keep a player indefinitely stunned from stamina exhaustion so it was usually a guaranteed death sentence.

    This may have seemed unfair but it was fairly balanced given the stamina management system back then as feints costed less stamina (especially 1-handers) and stamina drain from parrying/blocking was much, much less brutal than it is now - you had to work at getting a player completely drained of stamina or your opponent had to have very terrible stamina management.

    I don’t agree with regaining 30 free stamina on daze but I also wouldn’t agree with bringing back the old system of being perpetually stunned with the new stamina costs right now.
    Some tweaking is needed.

    Also its quite unfair gameplay to be able to kite when you have 0 stamina by simply sprinting away from your opponent, who decides to chase you, and then suddenly turning around with a slash to the (usually) unsuspecting player.
    You can sometimes do this repeatedly if you do not break from sprint when attacking and you have a weapon with sufficient reach all while you have no stamina.
    The chase speed boost mechanic usually just dictates how long the sprinter has before he needs to turn around with a strike to his approaching chaser.

    A player should not be allowed to sprint & attack at the same time with no stamina. At the very least, sprinting alone shouldn’t be possible with 0 stamina or only for a few seconds.


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