Why all the third person hate?



  • I realize that third person mode is banned in competitive play. That’s fine, they make the rules, and I don’t play competitively. But even non hardcore players seem to have the hate on for third person users.

    I’ve used third person since rank 3 or so (I’m currently 25). After reading some of the discussion on these forums I decided to spend a couple days trying to learn first person again. After much frustration, I gave up and brought up the discussion in the chat on an official server. I was immediately bombarded with messages such as “lol 3rd person is for bads” and “only noobs use third person”.

    One of the arguments made was “3rd person makes you LMB spam more”. My counter is that no, just the opposite. One of my main gripes with 1st is that you constantly have to look away from your target to block, mouse drag, look down overhead, and often times people will run to your side while facehugging you. If I can’t see you, I’ll be far more likely to LMB since it is easier to hit with. That way I don’t have to guess how much to spin my camera for a stab/overhead. In 3rd, I can still see someone on my side, so I can much more accurately throw in a stab/overhead.

    Another argument is “the game is made for 1st person”. While I can’t deny that, I find the game looks better in 3rd. First of all, this is because increasing your FOV in 1st will cause you to see the inside of your characters arms. Very distracting. Also, I find the animations to be better in 3rd, because they have to be. 1st person animations are cosmetic, 3rd person animations are seen by everyone, so they have to be clear in order for other players to be able to understand what action is being taken so they can react to it.

    If anyone else has any thoughts/arguments, I’d be happy to comment on it.



  • FP takes more skill. FP makes you rely on sound more to know what’s happening around you. You don’t need to know the terrain around you because you can just see it.

    It lets you do things you’re not supposed to do like see over shields, around corners, and ducking under swings while still being able to see.

    There are ups and downs for both views. I find it easier to aim attacks and parry in first person. I think TP does look better because you can see all your enemies dying, but I just can’t play MAA in TP.

    Not sure what you mean by animations. The only animations that change are yours and you should know which animations your character is using.



  • I think 3rd person takes away from what the game is supposed to be. It’s supposed to be the melee, medieval combat equivalent of a First Person Shooter. The game does it great and I think the combat is intricate enough to really keep the replay value high (Pls help, I cannot stop playing this game).

    If I click my mouse sensitivity up 2 clicks and go 3rd person, I can swing around enemies 2-3 times faster than in 1st person and stabs and overheads can be switched from one direction to another in the blink of an eye.

    It essentially turns the game from combat chess match into twitchy COD style nonsense.

    I know realism isn’t why we play video games, but 1st person in Chivalry just feels how the game is supposed to be played. Being able to instantly 180 with high mouse sensitivity to stab/overhead a player you really shouldn’t even be able to see is just ridiculous.



  • @c4ndlejack:

    Not sure what you mean by animations. The only animations that change are yours and you should know which animations your character is using.

    For example, if you have your FOV turned up(and tbh, anyone who’s serious about the game does) and LMB with bardiche/halberd it looks like the weapon is about the length of a broadsword and you swing it with one hand.

    Not a question of gameplay, or being able to tell what animation I’m doing, it just looks bad.



  • It’s not called a First Person Slasher for no reason. :) The game is meant for first person, but I don’t really care too much about what mode my opponents use.

    @c4ndlejack:

    FP takes more skill. FP makes you rely on sound more to know what’s happening around you. You don’t need to know the terrain around you because you can just see it.

    It lets you do things you’re not supposed to do like see over shields, around corners, and ducking under swings while still being able to see.

    This pretty much sums up the whole argument.



  • I feel the only valid issue with 3rd Person is when you’re a shield user. It negates one of the major drawbacks of using a shield and essentially makes it so there’s no reason to NOT use the Tower Shield.

    Other than that, 3rd person does limit your precision which in turn reduces the depth of the gameplay. For example, one of my favorite things to do is bypassing parries without using slashes and I find that very difficult to do in 3rd person.

    @Substance:

    I know realism isn’t why we play video games, but 1st person in Chivalry just feels how the game is supposed to be played. Being able to instantly 180 with high mouse sensitivity to stab/overhead a player you really shouldn’t even be able to see is just ridiculous.

    You’re making it sound like you can’t do this in first person. (Which you can.)



  • I find LMB swinging to be all too simple in third person, as a vanguard with a bardiche the third person simply makes you overpowered in the ability to whirlwind and outmaneuver enemies. But that’s not the source of grief, it’s the fact that third person is head down camera which is currently one of the most exploitable tactics for instant swings with overhands. Third person players almost naturally gain this advantage while a first person player will generally need to be looking at his target to see what swings are coming and from where.

    The other aspect is that 1st person adds tremendous dueling advantages in being able to properly gauge distances, parry, and stab with precision, yet it has a weakness in spatial awareness. The third person mode removes that weakness and the lack of precision encourages more sprinting and slashing than the game would otherwise have. I have often requested allies to stab or overhand enemies when allies are around and the common response is that they can’t see the enemy behind their third person avatar well enough to be able to do that.

    Promoting newbish tactics is never a good thing for a game you wish to be competitive, however the original Chivalry mod didn’t have third person and suffered for it in the casual department. It’s a mixed bag of awesome and lame, but it gives people who suck an oppurtunity to enjoy the game more by removing several of the barriers to entry that first person has. If I felt it could be safely removed without harming the community, that’d be my vote as well. As it stands, it may be the only thing keeping some people playing, and the game has too few players already.



  • You’re making it sound like you can’t do this in first person. (Which you can.)

    Unless I’m missing something like a rear view mirror on my arm, I have zero ability to see players that are directly behind me when I’m playing in first person. Sure, if I know an enemy is there I can swing around and attack, but not with the same absurdity that is going 3rd person and insta striking with high sensitivity.



  • My biggest gripe with 1st person is that it forces me into a play style I don’t like and am not comfortable. 1st person basically forces me to play very aggressive, while in 3rd I play more defensively (don’t misinterpret ‘defensively’ as ‘turtling’)

    @Lord:

    I have often requested allies to stab or overhand enemies when allies are around and the common response is that they can’t see the enemy behind their third person avatar well enough to be able to do that.

    It seems there are bad 3rd person users and good 3rd person users, just as there is with first person. I personally do more TKs in 1st, since a LOT of the time while I’m fighting someone, someone will run right in front of me to try to get the kill. With 3rd person I can see them before I actually hit them, whereas in first I usually end up hitting them (and being raged as because of this).

    I personally have no trouble hitting targets with stabs or overheads in 3rd person. I don’t go by where the crosshair is, I go by the animations and the relativity between my character and my target.



  • @Substance:

    You’re making it sound like you can’t do this in first person. (Which you can.)

    Unless I’m missing something like a rear view mirror on my arm, I have zero ability to see players that are directly behind me when I’m playing in first person. Sure, if I know an enemy is there I can swing around and attack, but not with the same absurdity that is going 3rd person and insta striking with high sensitivity.

    I think you mistake ‘3rd person’ with ‘eyes in the back of their head’. Yes, you can see behind you, but only a very short distance. Since people are bringing realism up, if someone is that close behind you IRL, you would know they were there, regardless of if you could see them or not.

    Another point I make is that in third person, the FOV is closer to real life (not including seeing yourself and behind yourself). Humans have ~180 degree area of vision, whereas the game limits it to 120, which even that is fisheyed (Curved monitors pl0x? :3) IMO 3rd person just makes it so you can see things in game that you could also see if it were real life.



  • If the developers are reading this, they need to keep things as it. Leave the choice up the players in terms how they want to play. Idiots love to dictate how others like to play. 1st/3rd person should be a choice, not something that is decided by idiots who would NOT choose that options for themselves anyways. So don’t let the 1st person people choose the play choice for 3rd person players and vice versa.



  • Just saying as a main MMA who does FFA often you like HAVE TO HAVE 3rd person. its almost suicide to go first person because every1 is spamming lmb with zweis and gaymores and alot of times in first person you dont see those out of sight peripheral attacks you could with 3rd person.

    Dont get me wrong i used 1st person in dueling and it is more fun but i learned the game 3rd person and they both have cons and pros just different playing styles



  • Just saying as a main MMA who does FFA often you like HAVE TO HAVE 3rd person. its almost suicide to go first person because every1 is spamming lmb with zweis and gaymores and alot of times in first person you dont see those out of sight peripheral attacks you could with 3rd person.

    Dont get me wrong i used 1st person in dueling and it is more fun but i learned the game 3rd person and they both have cons and pros just different playing styles



  • Thirdperson is just an unfair advantage that gives you way more perspective than the firstperson persective person, also it WILL just be abused to look around corners to land deadly timed attacks without exposing yourself to your opponent. Imagine abusing thirdperson to hide behind a corner with Maul, then you see your opponent walk past and BAM, one hit to the head and he is dead, and you just “knew” his location without exposing yourself to him. Regardless of the fact that there are some thirdperson perspective player, to allow this would just open the opportunity for us firstperson perspective to abuse this once in a while to peek around corners.

    This game was dedicated to be a firstperson melee fighting game. The thirdperson option was something discovered much later on, so they thought “why not add that feature.”

    You may aswell carry on to play on public servers with thirdperson, but you will not be able to do that in competive matches, that’s just how things have been settled to avoid exploiting.



  • How much do guys in 3rd actually look around corners? I dunno’ I’m not a competitive player but to me it doesn’t seem that likely.

    I like it because I played 30 levels of FFA mostly as a Maa which is very hard in Fps. I think it looks waaay better too.



  • @Crum1y:

    How much do guys in 3rd actually look around corners? I dunno’ I’m not a competitive player but to me it doesn’t seem that likely.

    I like it because I played 30 levels of FFA mostly as a Maa which is very hard in Fps. I think it looks waaay better too.

    Every once in a while I’m healing behind a corner and some vanguard charges around it with his attack started before he could even see me. Obvious TP.



  • Everyone in Warband uses 3rd person, since it gives you a massive situational awereness advantage.

    I wonder why Torn Banner ever allowed 3rd person for this game, since everything is geared towards 1st person (blocking and such, from the tutorial up).



  • @wildwulfy:

    Imagine abusing thirdperson to hide behind a corner with Maul, then you see your opponent walk past and BAM, one hit to the head and he is dead, and you just “knew” his location without exposing yourself to him.

    I am guilty of that a lot lol, perfect for defending Trebuchet 3.

    Having said that the big disadvantage of third person is blocking is harder - but I have gotten used to it.

    I like sword and shield and first person is just no fun for that at all.

    I am surprised anyone can defend themselves against a good MAA in first person since they can practically dodge out of sight.

    Maybe one day I will switch to first person permanently but since I just play for fun I like seeing all the blood and gore all around me and of course situational awareness in TO helps a lot.



  • @gregcau:

    Having said that the big disadvantage of third person is blocking is harder - but I have gotten used to it.

    This is a bit of an exaggeration. I’m also going to assume you didn’t mean blocking with a shield since that is easier in third person for obvious reasons.

    The only real time when parrying is more difficult in 3rd is if your character visually completely obstructs an opponent’s weapon during an attack but even when this happens there are sufficient animation cues to indicate when to parry.

    Third person still makes it easier to block/parry at facehug ranges as the extra visual awareness allows you to almost always see the entirety of your opponent’s body and his weapon’s swings if he attempts sprinting footwork around you.

    @gregcau:

    I am surprised anyone can defend themselves against a good MAA in first person since they can practically dodge out of sight.

    Certainly takes much more skill compared to third person (if you’re not using spear/polearm reach-like weapons). You need practice with dragging stabs/overheads and a sufficiently high FoV really helps (100+).



  • It’s pretty simple why a lot of people find 3rd person as a cheap tactic. The most obvious one is that it allows you to completely negate one of the main drawbacks for using a shield, visibility.

    The balancing formula for shields is that you have complete blocking potential and damage mitigation as long as you have sufficient stamina at the cost of mobility and visibility. The larger the shield the less visibility and mobility except for maybe the visibility between the buckler and heater. By using 3rd person you have just as much visibility using a shield as without and even more.


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