Alternative Attack is too fast compared to normal attack



  • If you play a lot, and use alternative attacks often, you will notice alternative attacks (on most weapons, if not all) are faster than their counterpart normal versions. For example: Longsword (knight) two-handed, alternative slash, is EXTREMELY FAST compared to the normal slash, so everyone (that knows of it) it’s using it. Broadsword (MAA) both alternative slash and overhead hit faster than their counterparts.

    The issue is not that they are “just” faster, the issue is that because of this, some weapons attack way faster than they should, like the Longsword. The Longsword’s normal slash has a speed, while the alternative slash is way faster because it’s meant to be used as a follow-up attack (combos duh). Many weapons are too fast when using alternative attacks, so fast they are unbalanced. This wasn’t a problem when it was required to attack once before doing it (required to perform combos), but now, because of the patch, everyone can start fights or perform attacks midfight with this uber fast attacks with slow weapons. I think the speed of alternative attacks should be reduced.

    Any thoughts on this?



  • Step 1: Alt-Overhead with the Norse Sword
    Step 2: Laugh



  • Hopefully its a bug but since the mods stopped (gave up?) updating the confirmed bug list we are in the dark.



  • It’s not faster, it’s just that the release actually starts more towards the middle of the screen on an alt swing giving the impression it’s faster (when looking directly at the player). For this to be fixed, the animator basically has to redo the animations, there is no other way around it.



  • It doesn’t change your total attack time (the time to go from windup to recovery, or from windup to combo), or the duration of any attack state (windup, release, combo, recovery) - it’s purely a case of the animation being different, and hit tracers being tied to animations. Essentially you achieve the same effect by looking further downwards or putting your enemy further to the side your swing is coming from.



  • With polearms the alt overhand is slower. As its an underhand. Could be another illusion but its the only one I know of.

    Not that I’m complaining as everybody parry’s early or doesn’t even see it coming. Its like a feint and attack combined.



  • i saw a video comparison between the attacks, and the Alt seemed to reach the middle faster but both ended at the same time.



  • This is a conspiracy. The alt horizontal attack on bardiche is super fast :?



  • @ReMixx:

    This is a conspiracy. The alt horizontal attack on bardiche is super fast :?

    Alt overhead on Dane Axe seems faster too… As does the falchion alt overhead… IDK, but I still think they are quicker.



  • @ChuckingIt:

    @ReMixx:

    This is a conspiracy. The alt horizontal attack on bardiche is super fast :?

    Alt overhead on Dane Axe seems faster too… As does the falchion alt overhead… IDK, but I still think they are quicker.

    I don’t know if the alt overhead on the dane axe is faster, but it definitely attacks at an unfair angle with unfair reach. It will be easier to block in the next patch.



  • @ChuckingIt:

    @ReMixx:

    This is a conspiracy. The alt horizontal attack on bardiche is super fast :?

    Alt overhead on Dane Axe seems faster too… As does the falchion alt overhead… IDK, but I still think they are quicker.

    I disagree. The alts on Dane Axe seem a lot slower than the normal overhead.



  • It’s definitely the case with swords.

    I don’t know about the others but for Greatsword, Zweihander and (especially) Messer, the alt slash is way faster.



  • Everyone is wrong. Im faster than everything. Well… except one thing.



  • Share has a video showing how alt swings move to the center faster than regular swings.



  • This is Shara’s video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxnLfXXeCoA

    On another note I kind of take issue with how far behind the MAA the hit tracer extends. In fact, the regular swing hit tracer seems to show a greater reach behind the left shoulder at the start of the regular swing than the weapon reaches in front of the MAA. Why are weapons reaching more than 180 degrees behind people? That swing would not hurt anyone at that moment, as it has no momentum. You would just be trying to muscle your sword through someone’s armor. This just serves to encourage inaccurate swinging, and discourages proper flanking (especially when combined with the current glitch that allows you to parry people attacking you from behind) because if you flank properly you have even less warning of a swing coming out to hit you.



  • @Dr.Nick:

    Share has a video showing how alt swings move to the center faster than regular swings.

    The fact that the swing reaches the center of its arch faster then the normal swing makes it superior because it means you can accelerate this swing and hit someone faster then the normal swing. There is the added bonus that the swing finishes at the same time as the standard swing which means that you can pull the swing into other nearby targets once you’ve hit your first one, again, making the alternate swing superior to the standard one.



  • @123mop:

    This is Shara’s video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxnLfXXeCoA

    I used to think this was just an illusion. Since your character has to bring his arm to his other side while retaining the same animation time, it appears faster, but I figured that was just an appearance. However, this video is quite damning.

    An animation re-do will have to be slated for down the line. I don’t think the time can be spared right now.



  • Since the windups and releases are the same overall time, it’s difficult to argue that they are all imbalanced simply because they connect off windup faster - if we go down that road, then swing manipulation itself is imbalanced because it can achieve the exact same effects as these alt attacks. When you see your opponent pull back his sword to his left, it’s like seeing your opponent look down as he raises for an overhead - the attack coming at you is probably going to be acceled, unless you get faked out. If you can respond to a lookdown overhead, there’s no reason you shouldn’t be able to respond to an alt overhead from the same weapon (should be easier actually, because it’s telegraphed further in advance. Your opponent can lookdown at the last moment - he can’t hide his windup until the last moment).

    That isn’t to say there aren’t some genuine problems. Some of the alts have some subtle animations, making it harder to tell when you should parry. Some of them have weird angles/placement that make parrying them difficult (dane axe gave me no small amount of trouble when I first saw its alt overhead, less sure now). And some weapons have fundamental problems that are exposed when you make accelling attacks so easy and common. Like the hatchet: it has a .45s release on its slash. In the regular slash, that lengthy release is a buffer between you and the instant hit. In the alt slash, it doesn’t buffer at all - it actually allows you to choose between going for the instahit or engaging in delay and swing manipulation to try and drag it around a parry (which, combined with the hatchet’s already unforgiving parry window due to its small size, is fairly effective).

    But the problem there is that release times are actually a buff. You can negate the length of the release with accel (so it doesn’t delay your connects at all), and then you can take advantage of the the release to improve your range with movement, pull off swing manipulation hijinks to go around parries, and as you approach and exceed the .5s mark dragging until parries end becomes an option. Consider the dane axe - .5s release. I’ve seen MaA throw overheads to my side and then slam it into my ankles at the end of their release.

    I think the slash on the hatchet and the slash/overhead on the dane axe could afford to have their release dropped by .05s each. It wouldn’t really change the way the weapons are used (dane axe is the lengthy master of swing manipulation, hatchet is the king of speed), but it would make the dane axe less of the “one true MaA weapon” (only a slight exaggeration) and the hatchet less LOLWTFY.

    Anyway, back to the topic: I like the burst of speed alt attacks start their releases with. I would rather see the regular attacks buffed to that level than see the alternates nerfed back to the regulars, or maybe some sweet spot inbetween (but that’d be even more work).



  • I think the problem with alternate attacks looking faster than regular attacks is that the animations for alt attacks look pretty buggy with a lot of weapons.

    If you look at Sharia’s zweihander video you can really see the problem. With the regular swing there’s a slow pullback followed by a gradual acceleration of the swing forward, but with the alternate swing it’s dragged across his chest, pulled back slightly and then it instantly flies forward with zero acceleration. It almost looks like it’s just bouncing back, which makes it look a lot faster than it is.

    This is because the devs tried to make the animations for both types of attacks the same length, but it doesn’t work properly because the regular swing works in two stages, the pullback and the swing forward. And the alternate attack works in three, the dragging across the chest to the left, then the pullback and swing. So it makes it look way faster than it should since the three stages to the alternate swing are crammed into the time frame of the two-stage regular swing.


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