What exactly is the idea behind ranged?



  • It seems like ranged operates in the dreaded “hybrid” or “support” category where there is a major advantaged to ranged capabilities but the game is afraid to design an equally major downside.

    Developers like the idea of support classes but often get concerned that players won’t understand the role and thus try to give them the ability to do more. Even things like throwing axes and throwing knives on melee seem very odd to me. But nothing is more odd than ranged/archers role in the game which I can’t really pin down.

    I bring this up because every time I see discussion about ranged classes and their abilities and melee and whathaveyou it’s always done in a vacuum without considering how the entire game works.

    Now before I start suggesting changes I want to get other people’s opinions of what they believe the ranged classes ARE, what they SHOULD BE, and what they run into.



  • My personal thoughts are that a ranged class should be ‘A class that is capable of attacking an enemy without suffering immediate retaliation, but deals much less damage than other classes’.

    For me, the ranged classes are Bow/Crossbow Archers.
    Javelineers are hybrids to me and should be using projectiles at mid-range.

    Bow Archers fit my idea of the ‘ranged class’ the best. Crossbow Archers are more like single-target burst mages in an RPG.

    The role of the ranged class(Bow Archer) in Chivalry, in my opinion, should be supportive fire. Ideally, you’d only want to have one Archer, and the Archer generates free damage and makes the enemy team easier to kill. Essentially they should be marking targets for death for their teammates.

    What I tend to experience is the KILL SECURITY SQUAD that will cause a randomly selected low-health player from either side to drop dead.

    I personally play Archer as an Assassin class and sneak behind enemy lines, take out aware opponents with the Heavy Crossbow, then go on a 7-kill backstabbing spree before stupidly running right into a Vanguard swing which…I’m pretty sure is not how you’re supposed to play Archer.



  • Downsides?
    Having a throwable axe/knife/pot means you are incapable of defending yourself. You are fully vulnerable whilst in dangerous proximity to a fight.

    Archers, are weak in close quarter combat. Armor, range and damage output.

    What I think a ranged class should be?
    They shouldn’t be a sniper class picking off people like assassins. That’s too powerful of a mentality for this game.
    They should, instead, be a support class. They ‘help’ by wounding and putting players on the defensive so that the main force can push.
    They are the medics of the medieval world. They ain’t there for kills, just assists.

    Of course, a crafty and skillful player can make, any class or load-out, to suit their own personal strategy and tactics.



  • And to me, throwing knives and Axe are more for taking out enemy who are heavily wounded and attempt to run from the fight he picked.

    Or

    If you are afraid to hit your friendly, you can carefully aim ahead where the enemy your team was fighting so you wouldn’t hit your team.

    Also

    Take out archer that are on higher ground that you can’t reach



  • Some interesting responses and perspectives.

    Anyone else?

    @DemonicChocobo:

    The role of the ranged class(Bow Archer) in Chivalry, in my opinion, should be supportive fire. Ideally, you’d only want to have one Archer, and the Archer generates free damage and makes the enemy team easier to kill. Essentially they should be marking targets for death for their teammates.

    Fair perspective. What do you find the role to be in the game outside of your opinion? As in what do you think the developers intended from what you’ve observed?



  • It is very hard for me not to see the archers just as a nuisance. Sure, they can wound you, they can even kill you. Unpleasant, because it is so random and you can’t defend against it most of the time (especially as a vanguard) because you don’t see the archer picking you as his target over half the map. But it doesn’t happen that often.

    But this is not the nuisance I had in mind. They are a real nuisance during a fight. You pick an enemy or two, start fighting them… and then you see an archer nearby. And you can see he can see you. Being vanguard, it significantly changes my playstyle because not only I have to guard myself against my melee opponents, I have to take precautions not to get hit by the archer because if he hits me, I get flinched, my attack gets probably nullified and my parry gets surely nullified. So even if I survive the shot itself (quite likely), I die in the next two seconds.
    So I have to move more randomly and not the way I would like to in order to get into good position and my perception is divided between the melee danger and the ranged danger. Thus, my fighting prowess is diminished just thanks to the presence of the archer on the battlefield even if he manages to hit a friendly in the end.



  • @Eleshar_Vermillion:

    It is very hard for me not to see the archers just as a nuisance. Sure, they can wound you, they can even kill you. Unpleasant, because it is so random and you can’t defend against it most of the time (especially as a vanguard) because you don’t see the archer picking you as his target over half the map. But it doesn’t happen that often.

    But this is not the nuisance I had in mind. They are a real nuisance during a fight. You pick an enemy or two, start fighting them… and then you see an archer nearby. And you can see he can see you. Being vanguard, it significantly changes my playstyle because not only I have to guard myself against my melee opponents, I have to take precautions not to get hit by the archer because if he hits me, I get flinched, my attack gets probably nullified and my parry gets surely nullified. So even if I survive the shot itself (quite likely), I die in the next two seconds.
    So I have to move more randomly and not the way I would like to in order to get into good position and my perception is divided between the melee danger and the ranged danger. Thus, my fighting prowess is diminished just thanks to the presence of the archer on the battlefield even if he manages to hit a friendly in the end.

    Archer is THE support class in this game. A decent archer is invaluable to the team - they are the great equalizer. You can have as many high ranking, god-tier players on your team, but they will be shut down by a good group of archers and a wall to defend them. You can defend against their arrows with shields, but what about when you get randomly flinched? You died probably - your enemy is thanking his archer. What if you’re fighting a guy and need that one extra hit, but an arrow to the face ended that fantasy? Your enemy is thanking his archer.I’ve seen people on this forum, who are great at the game, get shut down because of archers.

    You just described what an archer does and does well. They mess you up without even doing anything. Yet.

    But a team can’t be made up of archers - that will fail. A team can’t have archers with a crappy meatshield in front of them. They need you, the meatshields, otherwise they can’t function as well.



  • The role of the archer is to make shields worth something.



  • @omg87:

    @Eleshar_Vermillion:

    It is very hard for me not to see the archers just as a nuisance. Sure, they can wound you, they can even kill you. Unpleasant, because it is so random and you can’t defend against it most of the time (especially as a vanguard) because you don’t see the archer picking you as his target over half the map. But it doesn’t happen that often.

    But this is not the nuisance I had in mind. They are a real nuisance during a fight. You pick an enemy or two, start fighting them… and then you see an archer nearby. And you can see he can see you. Being vanguard, it significantly changes my playstyle because not only I have to guard myself against my melee opponents, I have to take precautions not to get hit by the archer because if he hits me, I get flinched, my attack gets probably nullified and my parry gets surely nullified. So even if I survive the shot itself (quite likely), I die in the next two seconds.
    So I have to move more randomly and not the way I would like to in order to get into good position and my perception is divided between the melee danger and the ranged danger. Thus, my fighting prowess is diminished just thanks to the presence of the archer on the battlefield even if he manages to hit a friendly in the end.

    Archer is THE support class in this game. A decent archer is invaluable to the team - they are the great equalizer. You can have as many high ranking, god-tier players on your team, but they will be shut down by a good group of archers and a wall to defend them. You can defend against their arrows with shields, but what about when you get randomly flinched? You died probably - your enemy is thanking his archer. What if you’re fighting a guy and need that one extra hit, but an arrow to the face ended that fantasy? Your enemy is thanking his archer.I’ve seen people on this forum, who are great at the game, get shut down because of archers.

    You just described what an archer does and does well. They mess you up without even doing anything. Yet.

    But a team can’t be made up of archers - that will fail. A team can’t have archers with a crappy meatshield in front of them. They need you, the meatshields, otherwise they can’t function as well.

    Both of those posts in quotes summarize some things quite succinctly and effectively. Some of these points may come into play later in the topic.



  • You can’t fairly get angry at an archer who makes you nervous when you are in sword fight with another.

    The dynamic of any fight will change with the introduction of another person. Whether it be a throwable weapon, a long-reaching polearm, or a quick in-and-out flanking maa, or an archer from a distance.
    Archer is a nuisance, but it is a fair nuisance, like any other class joining a live fight.

    It is up to your footwork, cunning and battlefield awareness to take on the ever changing fight.



  • Just think of a bow as a really long and slow weapon that you can’t parry without a shield.



  • I thought the way archers, crossbowmen, and javelin throwers were done in Age of Chivalry should be the best example of ranged classes in this environment.



  • The idea behind ranged is you have to stay at a distance and hit the 5 year olds that are spamming feint towards you thinking they are going to win even if they are 50ft away. But even then they can run up, spam feint, and you’re dead in 1 shot as archer and there’s not a single thing you can do to counter it. It’s sad really.


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