Overhead leaning - It's making me furious



  • This overhead leaning into strikes, literally looking down at the floor to force the strike to connect faster even when the swing isn’t visibly about to connect to you, is really really getting to me.
    It goes through blocks, I cannot parry and I always get outdone by people doing it because they strike much faster this way. It’s no longer a matter of skillbased combat, it’s a matter of who does this underhanded tactic the fastest.

    It’s become so much of an annoyance that I’m turned off from the game. And all I get from people is “LOL L2P NOOB”. Being told this isn’t helpful either, and people are just massive twats. To be frank, it’s feeling very lame and underhanded. I would not recommend the game to anyone because of this.
    I don’t consider myself a bad player, it’s often that I find myself on the top of lists. I do a lot of duelling with friends to keep the edge.

    It’s not a skill, it’s a clever abuse of a mechanic and I wish something could be done about it. I’m sure there will be plenty of people who vehemently disagree with me, but that’s probably because you’re ones doing this constantly.
    It reminds me of how a lot of people used a glitched weapon in Battlefield 3, there was a certain combination you could do for your weapon and it’d dish out ridiculous damage. This feels much like it. Just because it’s in the game and you can do it, doesn’t mean it’s right.

    I can take losing. I can take being outskilled. I can take an arrow to the knee. But I cannot stand this, because it’s not about skill. If it were, it wouldn’t be nigh impossible to defend against it.



  • As someone who does it because I feel I have to against others that do the same to me, I still agree with you it needs to go. In fact, pretty much my entire clan agrees that these zero release overheads are nothing but cheap tactics and we are one of most competitive clans in the EU, probably in the entire game, as we’ve done over 50 clan matches since release. We are called out for doing it in clan wars, but the real truth is, we would all rather it be gone entirely. You’re right though, because it’s there, we use it; it’d be silly not to when you want an edge over your opponent and ultimately, as you say, that’s why people do it. One of the things we keep going on about, is when two RK Knights duel, and all you see is two people staring at nothing but the floor when attacking each other, it just makes you think, is this really how combat should be? We need something to discourage or even eliminate it, and right now, the only thing I can personally put on the table is massively reduced damage in the first 20% or so of the release, but even this isn’t a perfect solution, it’s nowhere near. Complaining is easy (and of course valid with good reason behind it), but coming up with solutions is not.



  • Well all i can say is that somehow in age of chivalry its not possible.



  • @snickers557:

    Well all i can say is that somehow in age of chivalry its not possible.

    Because in Age of Chivalry, when you looked down, your actual body didn’t look down as much, just ‘your head’ if you like. It was still possible, just not to the extent of Chiv.



  • I agree, the few times I have played a vangaurd…(almost never) I was able to still do very well with a birdiche using the lookdown overhead as a crutch. In the end it felt cheap and I usually switch to my secondary the dane axe.

    I have read in a couple of other threads the idea of a small stun if you hit the ground. I would like to see this as it would reward people who do lean into their overhead but not to the extent that their weapon smashes into the ground, or those that can pull up before their weapon hits the ground. Either way it will change how those insta hits with two handed weapons feel, less cheap.

    It would be kinda cool to have your weapon stick into the ground and have a very quick animation that shows your character pulling it out of the ground. Might be too much but still cool imo.



  • Another thing would be turning yourself using horizontal swings… There isn’t any ground hitting for those… Or how about delayed swings? These kinds of moves are really kind of a crutch in order to get around someone’s parry (not as effective as easy cheese feints but they still work quite well)… Personally I see them as a bit less of an evil if you match them up against feints. Feints are pretty much the ultimate evil in my eyes. I feel like a cheap sonofabitch if I use feints, so I don’t. Hell, if I am readjusting a swing and it causes the guy to parry and I know my kill was a result of tricking the guy with a feint, I actually apologize for it… So anyway, I do feel like accelerated swings are kinda cheap. However, I don’t think they’re the worst thing in the game right now.



  • It’s a double-edge sword (pun).

    If you “somehow” removed that ability… then you remove the accuracy and precision of the game allowing you to adjust your swings in real time.
    It would affect everything.
    My ability to get around shields, parries, opponents with good foot-work.

    I agree the instant attacks are highly problematic. And go against the spirit of the devs tweaking recovery and counter attack timings.
    But it is a system that is tied down to everything else… which makes the game great.

    Seems like a very difficult problem to fix? Ideas?
    Keep in mind how it would affect all other forms of combat.

    Also, it has a positive. It rewards the player for keeping active and controlling the swing to get that slight enhancement of speed on the attack. Rewards the player for going that extra mile.
    Albeit, rewards too much, but we should still reward somewhat.



  • It’s a problem on some weapons. On others, it’s entirely within human reaction time to parry. Notable weapons that are bugged out for this are the Bardiche, Bearded Axe, hatchet (parrying a counter attack lookdown overhead from this is a miracle) there are a few others, but it mainly comes down to the animation not syncing up to the hitbox of the weapon. That needs to be fixed.



  • @The:

    it mainly comes down to the animation not syncing up to the hitbox of the weapon. That needs to be fixed.

    This is what I have noticed.

    In general, I think lookdown OH is just a natural part of the game, but with some weapons you get hit half a second before the model gets anywhere near you.



  • I +1 this topic, I see people doing this all the time now it seems only natural to do it to others. it has turned into a habit for me to do it when ever I can.



  • @Martin:

    As someone who does it because I feel I have to against others that do the same to me, I still agree with you it needs to go. In fact, pretty much my entire clan agrees that these zero release overheads are nothing but cheap tactics and we are one of most competitive clans in the EU, probably in the entire game, as we’ve done over 50 clan matches since release.

    What’s RK statement on feints then?



  • You know, if it were just what it was, mouse dragging wouldn’t be that bad. The complaints would primarily be realism based; other than that it’s just a nuance of the game people get used to.

    But this has the side effect of necessitating that weapons be balanced around this. Release is basically far less valuable to balance around than it should be. This is made even worse by the fact a long Release can be beneficial because it allows you to re-direct your swing if it slightly misses, also known as “lightsabering.”

    I’m of the opinion that in general, release times should be upped across the board, with the time placed into windup and/or recovery to compensate. This would lessen the difference between a mouse dragged swing and one that isn’t, because your weapon’s going so fast.

    However, this would conflict with a momentum mechanic (reduced damage at beginning of Release). I don’t know which would be more optimal.



  • I’ve done this before and I’ve had friends who do this as well - we all say the same thing. It felt stupid and cheap. It’s even more retarded when you see a pair lookdownsyndrome kids go at it. When it gets done to you, it’s infuriating because the attack starts immediately in front of your face. Because that’s how it’s supposed to work?

    “HERE, SWING AT THE DIRT.”

    I remember this being discussed before and a bunch of those people were actually defending it as some hidden technique when this is nothing short of an exploit to make your attack faster.

    However, we can bitch about this all we want, but how about a fix? Like limiting the actual look down in game while preserving the view in first person?



  • I agree, ban all mouse drags.



  • It is silly. We’ll be testing things to make it less silly in the future.



  • @SlyGoat:

    It is silly. We’ll be testing things to make it less silly in the future.

    Please don’t…. Or at least hire a tester. Cough Chuck Cough



  • Can we be more ‘specific’ on what is silly about it?

    Sure, looking down at the dirt looks silly. But there are a lot of silly looking things in the game.
    I’m just saying, prioritize balance on gameplay over aesthetics (if that is the case).

    Because I don’t know what we are referring to silly? The instant overheads to bypass intended timings… or the look of things :S



  • Can we be more ‘specific’ on what is silly about it?

    I think a better question is, what is not silly about it? This game is supposed to represent an element of hollywood-realistic medieval combat; in either true medieval combat, or films that portray medieval combat, where have you ever seen two people fight by constantly looking at the ground so their swords hit faster?



  • @Martin:

    Can we be more ‘specific’ on what is silly about it?

    I think a better question is, what is not silly about it? This game is supposed to represent an element of hollywood-realistic medieval combat; in either true medieval combat, or films that portray medieval combat, where have you ever seen two people fight by constantly looking at the ground so their swords hit faster?

    It’s just as silly as making a zwei go super slow by dragging it, or being able to block a maul with a dagger. But they are all part of the game. So who gets to judge what is ok and not ok? Based off a realistic portrayal of battle? If so, make archers pathetic and useless at melee. But I don’t think that is how this game should be judged.

    I’m more afraid of them “fixing” this and completely destroying other aspects. Slowing down and Speeding up attacks adds a higher skill ceiling that may be lost if taken away. Can’t we just worry about bugs, server browsers, Ghost swings and bad map balance first before changing core aspects to combat… :(



  • @ChuckingIt:

    @Martin:

    Can we be more ‘specific’ on what is silly about it?

    I think a better question is, what is not silly about it? This game is supposed to represent an element of hollywood-realistic medieval combat; in either true medieval combat, or films that portray medieval combat, where have you ever seen two people fight by constantly looking at the ground so their swords hit faster?

    It’s just as silly as making a zwei go super slow by dragging it, or being able to block a maul with a dagger. But they are all part of the game. So who gets to judge what is ok and not ok? Based off a realistic portrayal of battle? If so, make archers pathetic and useless at melee. But I don’t think that is how this game should be judged.

    I’m more afraid of them “fixing” this and completely destroying other aspects. Slowing down and Speeding up attacks adds a higher skill ceiling that may be lost if taken away. Can’t we just worry about bugs, server browsers, Ghost swings and bad map balance first before changing core aspects to combat… :(

    Agreed.
    People looking at the dirt is a aesthetic consequence from the design of giving us increased/precise control. We are limited to the interface of our keyboard/mouse. We cannot control arms separate from head/torso (head and torso seem to be locked together - hence you get that weird old man back bending over staring at the ground). It would be difficult to fix such an issue as it messes with everything that makes the game so good (precision/control).


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