Another Feintingsolution



  • Please discuss in this thread only about this feature and not if a feint change is needed or not. I, personly, could stand it, that feints will not get changed…

    What do you think about feinting a parry?
    Keep in mind, that it would also cost stamina like feinting an attack…
    Imagine, that you recognised, that the enemy feinted, but you made a block. With this feature, you would be able to stop (“feint”) the block with the same staminaloss as the enemy and be prepared for blocking the next attack.
    I think this simple feature would make fights more balanced and more complex.



  • Not necessary.

    If you made the mistake of blocking when not needed, then, you should be punished for your mistake (and the opponent should be rewarded).
    The whole point of the feint-attack is to trick you. You would under-mind the point of it by being tricked… and not punished.
    The question of the feint-attacks’ effectiveness, versus, ease of use/stamina drain/cheapness, is a separate discussion. And being discussed in, like, 5 other threads with 50 pages.

    Now let’s discuss the problems of what may occur with a the addition of feint-parry.
    1. A small point - addition of a new mechanic is the addition of 1 or many complications. Beware.
    2. Invincible Parry Scenario. The activation of a parry is near instant. But there is a lot of recovery time ,where you are vulnerable to be punished for missing you parry (as should be). You may be able to cut out this recovery state whilst still benefiting from the parry - you still parry but cancel the recovery and then parry again. Spamming this would enable a sort of non-stop parry, akin to using a shield.
    How could you prevent this (over-powered) issue of arising? I would believe, you would have to, delay when the parry becomes active. Which would then nerf the parry, as far as I can predict. This would not go down well with everyone.

    Having mechanics which deepens the fighting is a good thing. But we need to make sure they are not superfluous/redundant and/or going to add more headaches than they cure. Also, simplicity is a good thing.

    I believe the devs (and hopefully the majority of the community) want to promote aggression. One aggressive answer to beating a feint-attack… is to attack.
    This is a simple, effective and aggressive solution.

    I hope that was on-topic



  • With this feature, aggresive playstile would still be better then defensive most of the time…
    The problem of parrying an attack after feinting is, that human reaction time is not able to do this. So a parryfeint would be a very intuitiv action in the fight to make feints blockable.

    Invincible Parry Scenario

    An instant block with no shild is not able with this feature, because stamina drain would fast stop you doing this. I think, after four feints or so you are drained. So you must specifically deal with this maneuver. If you parryfeint more than the enemy attackfeints, you have a big disadvantage.
    Beeing controlled aggresive, is everytime better, because you can control the enemy, when to block and when to feintblock, and if the enemy player makes a mistakes, he get hit.

    And I repeat, I am not an opponent of feinting, I only found this idea good enough to post in this forum



  • Nope.

    Sorry but this is far too complicated. In the heat of battle, you are NEVER going to have the time to think “I think that’s a real attack; I need to use block #1” or “Ah that’s a feint, I need to use block #2”. I bet that 8 times out of 10 you will accidentally use the wrong block and die.

    Literally the only point in this change is to stop feint spam (because you can ‘fake’ a parry to draw your opponent’s real attack) and a far more effective change would simply be to give feint a 1 second cooldown.

    So it’s completely unnecessary.



  • Firstly, I believe this would be better suited in the Suggestions part of the forums. As it is a new mechanic suggestion. I only say this, because there is a LOT of feinting threads in here.

    The problem of parrying an attack after feinting is, that human reaction time is not able to do this. So a parryfeint would be a very intuitiv action in the fight to make feints blockable.

    If you made the mistake of blocking when not needed, then, you should be punished for your mistake (and the opponent should be rewarded).

    Invincible Parry Scenario
    An instant block with no shild is not able with this feature, because stamina drain would fast stop you doing this. I think, after four feints or so you are drained. So you must specifically deal with this maneuver. If you parryfeint more than the enemy attackfeints, you have a big disadvantage.
    Beeing controlled aggresive, is everytime better, because you can control the enemy, when to block and when to feintblock, and if the enemy player makes a mistakes, he get hit.

    There is no need for such a convoluted dance to occur. Just stab them.



  • @g0dlyk:

    If you made the mistake of blocking when not needed, then, you should be punished for your mistake (and the opponent should be rewarded).

    This will probably sound nitpicky, but when you get feinted it’s not because you made a mistake with your parry. Feints explode parry probabilistically, because you don’t have the information to differentiate a real hit from a feint until after you’ve been forced to parry. If you lose a coinfip, it’s not because you made a mistake - you lost a game of chance, end of story. The mistake that feinting punishes is not bad parrying (because feinting punishes good parrying as well as it does bad parrying) - the mistake that feinting punishes is a lack of aggression.

    That’s really important to understand. When you get feinted, the feedback you should take away from that is “you weren’t attacking enough. Make every opportunity to seize control of the fight.”



  • Interesting point, DSMatticus.

    I personally see Feinting as a x-factor, or wildcard.
    I don’t view it in the same world as actions and reactions. To watching animations and reacting to it.

    I see it as a 6th sense. A 4th Dimension of the combat.
    The sense/dimension of… the MIND

    I don’t believe the mechanic to be perfect (and a many things in this game are not). But I do love what it does bring to the table.

    but when you get feinted it’s not because you made a mistake with your parry.

    That’s correct. And I like that.
    You made a mistake to be on the defensive and expect an attack… and then react to a movement. You lost in the mind-war and paid the physical price.

    Mind-games are essential to a Fighter. I consider this a Mind-game mechanic that deepens combat, in a multi-dimensional sense, as oppose to, physical/twitch reactions.



  • Please, dont make this to another pro/kontra feint thread… We have enough of them
    Lets only discuss about advantages and disadvantages of a parryfeintfeature

    The mindgame would also exist with a parryfeint, but it will get harder to win against a very good player



  • @Wasabi:

    Lets only discuss about advantages and disadvantages of a parryfeintfeature

    The mindgame would also exist with a parryfeint, but it will get harder to win against a very good player

    Possibly the worse idea I have read and suggested before

    Feinter: “I am going to hit you”
    Parrier: “Well I am going to parry”
    Feinter: “Haha kidding I feinted”
    Parrier: “I figured so I feinted my parry”
    Feinter: “Damn”

    But since parry is almost instant the idea of feinting it is dumb. Might as well allow faster consecutive parries at a cost of extra stamina.



  • with
    Feinter: “I am going to hit you”
    Parrier: “Well I am going to parry”
    Feinter: “Haha kidding I feinted”
    Parrier: “I figured so I feinted my parry”
    Feinter: “Damn”

    without
    Feinter: “I am going to hit you”
    Parrier: "Good, will he feint or attack, hmmm 50/50, I will block…
    Feinter: “hehe”
    Parrier: “Where is my head”

    Both ways up will not happen, because fighting in chivalry is more, than hitting feinting and blocking (and blockfeinting in this thread).
    There is also footwork, stamina, duck and jumping, weaponreach, blockdirections, five different attacks,…
    In parryfeintfihgts, you must deal sparse with your stamina. Maybe make feintblocks costing more stamina than feintattacks, so every feintblock is a win for the attacker

    But since parry is almost instant the idea of feinting it is dumb. Might as well allow faster consecutive parries at a cost of extra stamina.

    Ya, not a bad idea. A problem is, that this is a complete new movement, where you need a new button, instead of parryfeints, which are simpler and fit more into the game controls
    (rightklick then q for feintparry, new button for fastparry)



  • Adding ANOTHER feint to the game is a bad idea imo, the current one needs to be removed and imagine how fun the combat would be! This game would be perfect.



  • I think so long as there is a minimum parry hold time (i.e not insta-spammable) this would be a simple enough solution to at least try. It would increase your chances of survival but not make feints useless by any means.

    Feints would still be capable of offsetting a player’s defense but it would just require more thought to feint timing with possibly the use of multiple feints.



  • Remove feint completely and everyone except the immature children will be satisfied.



  • Or just cut the parry wind-up to something insignificantly small.



  • brewergamer, are you only registered in this forum to write in every thread something like “remove feinting”, or such. When I look to your posts, it seems so. You will nothing archive with this non-argumenting-spamming than sooner or later a ban i think

    I think so long as there is a minimum parry hold time (i.e not insta-spammable) this would be a simple enough solution to at least try. It would increase your chances of survival but not make feints useless by any means.

    Feints would still be capable of offsetting a player’s defense but it would just require more thought to feint timing with possibly the use of multiple feints.

    THIS is, what I wanted to say with my thread. I have not read a real reason, why parryfeint should be bad, for me….

    Or just cut the parry wind-up to something insignificantly small.

    also possible, but hard for new players



  • @Wasabi:

    brewergamer, are you only registered in this forum to write in every thread something like “remove feinting”, or such. When I look to your posts, it seems so. You will nothing archive with this non-argumenting-spamming than sooner or later a ban i think

    I think so long as there is a minimum parry hold time (i.e not insta-spammable) this would be a simple enough solution to at least try. It would increase your chances of survival but not make feints useless by any means.

    Feints would still be capable of offsetting a player’s defense but it would just require more thought to feint timing with possibly the use of multiple feints.

    THIS is, what I wanted to say with my thread. I have not read a real reason, why parryfeint should be bad, for me….

    @1o5r575c:

    Or just cut the parry wind-up to something insignificantly small.

    also possible, but hard for new players

    Lol so let me get this right, you want me banned because I don’t like feint? Oh sorry I didn’t know these forums didn’t allow voicing of opinions.



  • Lol so let me get this right, you want me banned because I don’t like feint? Oh sorry I didn’t know these forums didn’t allow voicing of opinions.

    No, because youre spamming
    Compare your posts with them of for example… Dr Nick and you can see the difference between voicing of his opinion and spamming, against feints



  • Bad idea.

    Learn that it isn’t brokenness you don’t like. Because the mechanic is working as intended.

    It’s the concept you don’t like. The mind game. Something crucial to any directly competitive interaction worth anything.

    This is why you feel like something is wrong when you can’t “React.”

    Your solution is not a good one because it essentially trying to eliminate a feints ability to lord over the parry. Which is exactly what it’s supposed to do. Which is good since without it the parry is far too safe of a go-to answer to, like, everything. Without it I could feel safe knowing that if someone was coming at me I could sit back and try for a parry. A feint kills that. It’s now not just “let’s see what attack he’s going to do” it’s “is this a situation in which I should choose to be offensive or defensive?”

    You are making significant and far more severe decisions earlier in the interaction. No one can ably demonstrate how feinting, a mechanic both sides have access to that has the same effectiveness at all points of the interaction (doesn’t get better as you get weaker etc.) is “unbalanced.” Quit buzzing words around.

    Also, tossing a word like “complex” around naked is a good indicator that someone doesn’t really have a grasp of how to really reconcile their suggestions with their effects. “Complexity” isn’t inherently good or bad. There are good types and bad types. It’s also quite silly to believe that lowering the effectiveness of a move by increasing the options of the move it’s meant to counter would add any net complexity since you’ve just decreased the motivation to use something in the game.

    Currently: Feints are viable for blowing up parries.

    After your suggestion: Feints are not viable for blowing up parries since their entire purpose gets negated by giving the parrier a second chance AKA feints are used less or not at all.

    More complex? How?


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