My opinion on Chivalry: Awesome Game



  • Dear Torn Banner
    My name is Lucian and I’ve been playing chivalry since it was released.
    I have almost 500 hours in the game.
    It has gotten to the point now where I just launch chivalry, join 1 server for a few seconds and then quit. Not out of rage. Simply because the game I feel is broken. There are so many different aspects that are broken in the game and I’d just like to talk about some of them. Following the recent devs Q&A I decided to make this post since the video was very vague and I just haven’t voiced my opinions about the game yet and I’d hope the devs would maybe read them so here they are. It’s a long one.

    Flinch Timings:
    Okay, so I’ve been told multiple times that there is currently a bug with the flinch timings and I experience this bug every single day. I’m sure by now you’ve been in a position where by you have perhaps stabbed somebody clearly at the beginning of their attack but their attack still carries on through. Sometimes they can even combo this. I cannot tell you how many times I’ve fought players and it’s just been the two of us comboing with the Longsword into each other. I’ve yet to see confirmation of this from a mod or dev, so if you’re reading this then please be sure to confirm if there is a bug with the flinch timings and if it’s being fixed.

    Feinting:
    Feinting is an issue that is hugely talked about on the forums. I’ve seen some good arguments with well rounded points both supporting and against feinting. But I’ve also seen some utterly retarded arguments in which players with hardly any experience in the game spew their utter nonsense into the subject box. Quite simply I feel that right now, feinting IS a broken mechanic. There are so many reasons and I can’t believe some people here would legitimately defend it.

    Before I go on, I would like to say that I do NOT think this mechanic should be removed, I simply think it should be FIXED. The whole point of a feint is to trick your opponent into blocking early which is fine. It’s one of the easiest ways to get around a parry. Understood. But the way it is now, you might as well rename your game to Chivalry: Medieval feint wars because it’s just a bunch of people running around the maps spamming Q or whatever key they have feint binded to. This would not be an issue if the attacks on some weapons weren’t as fast as they are, or perhaps if the animation of the feint was distinguishable by a small margin from a normal attack. But it’s not.

    There is simply know way to tell. You have to guess and it shouldn’t be like that. It shouldn’t be a guessing game. It should be skilled gameplay. You should be watching your opponents moves like a hawk trying to predict where he will strike and his next move. Not randomly parrying late because you thought he was going to feint. On top of all of that, lookdown overheads make your attack much harder to block anyway. But throw in a feint and it’s an absolute joke. People will say feinting is fine simply because it’s the only way in which they can get a kill. They don’t want that taken away from them. Torn Banner, I urge you not to listen to these people. The mechanic doesn’t need to be taken out. It’s got a good concept it just needs to be refined more so that it’s more of an ace in the hole instead of a spammed guessing game. Despite the resent patch, I still have faith that you will fix this issue and I’m looking forward to see what you do to try and balance this more.

    Lookdown overheads:
    Okay so for those of you who don’t know, a lookdown overhead is where you look at the floor to speed up your overhead attack. You can also swing your mouse to the left to go along with your slash to speed that up also. Personally, I think that these are both good and bad. I think you should be able to influence the speed of your attacks to a certain degree. But right now the game is full of people who look directly at the floor. And I mean directly. The issue with this is that with weapons like the messer and poleaxe that do more damage. They will hit faster and therefore kill faster. People will argue that you sacrifice some range in order to do this but this is a close combat game, if you’re playing on a map like throneroom on LTS you’ll know there are many corridors that are perfect for abusing this tactic since you’ll always be in close proximity to your opponent.

    I think looking directly at the floor whilst using an overhead should not be possible with any weapon. It doesn’t look right to begin with and physically you’d just end up hurting yourself anyway. Despite this, I do think you should be able to look down at a slight angle with your attack, maybe down to the crotch to give the attack a slight difference in speed and reach. But I don’t think it should be as abusable as it is now. Combine lookdown overheads with feinting and you’ll find yourself giving even some of the clan players trouble.

    Map bugs:
    I’ve been in games with people who like to run around and find spots on the map to abuse and glitch into. While harmless, they do end up wasting peoples time in Last Team Standing games and whilst this doesn’t particularly annoy me, I’m sure other people who are on a tight schedule with work or whatever and just want to unwind and play some chivalry are quite irritated by people who do this. I know for a fact that alot of these map bugs were in the game far before the last content update.

    They could have been fixed to begin with, but instead Torn Banner published new content, giving themselves new bugs to fix on top of the old ones. And whilst it’s really nice that you care about the game and the community enough to release such things (I really like some of the new maps btw, Argons wall is awesome) It just sucks that some of the annoying bugs that could have been fixed long ago are still here. I’ve seen alot of bugs where you can just walk into rocks on the map and hide in the textures etc. Many more. I hope these will get some attention in the next content update. I personally would really appreciate this. They may seem funny at first, but 500 hours of enduring community members exploit these bugs gets old soon enough.

    1 handers:
    1 handed weapons seem to have also gotten some attention from the community. I’ve seen the devs and mods comment on this before so I’m sorry if you’re tired of explaining the same old boring topic again, but it seems that the range on most 1 handed weapons is bugged. At first I found it laughable that people were comparing 1 handed weapon range to 2 handers such as the longsword. But the more I play the more I find 1 handers reaching me when they shouldn’t be. Often I’ll see it happen to other players too so I’m just wondering if there is a bug with this? It seems like an issue to me since they can already face-hug you, now they have slight range advantage too? Confirmation on if this is a bug or not would be appreciated.

    Warhammer:
    Okay, this weapon for me has lead to a lot of rage-quits. When the patch was first released, I loved duel mode. I thought it was awesome. Every game was a challenge. But after about a week I started fighting more and more knights using the warhammer. My ratio was about 10 losses to 200 wins. In the spell of a few days, that went to 230 wins to 30 losses and I can tell you for a fact that almost all of those losses were to people using the warhammer. Now this isn’t to say that the warhammer is OP. The warhammer may be benefiting from bugs and issues such as the flinch bug and the 1 hander range issue which I previously mentioned. Despite all of these, one notable serious issue I have is with parrying this weapon.

    I cannot tell you how many times I have parried this weapon and it has just ignored my block completely and gone through. I promise you right now, as soon as I experienced this I began to pay 120% attention with my best attempts to parry that weapon in combat, but every time, even after drastically changing to try and face the weapon and parry it, it still goes through. This is a huge issue. Just the other day I dueled an individual who was using what he referred to as his favorite load out (Longsword) I was also using Longsword. I defeated him in the first round only to find he had switch to the warhammer.

    Needless to say after my best attempts, I still lost even though I was 1 round up. He then proceeded to refer to the warhammer as his fall back weapon and agreed with me in saying that there is something wrong regarding this weapon. After experiencing all of this I decided to use it personally and found that it was a joke of a weapon against knights mostly. Killing them effortlessly in 2 hits. I don’t think any weapon should be this effective against any individual class. This is all however my opinion. Again, I’d appreciate it if a dev or mod could tell me if there is a legitimate bug with this weapon to confirm my suspicions. This weapon is the soul reason that I do not play duel mode anymore. Despite all the other issues, this one takes the cake for duel mode.

    Vanguard:
    In a duel sense, I think that vanguard is the weakest class you can choose out of all the classes available. Vanguards are archer magnets and on maps like the moor they get absolutely shot to pieces. Especially if there is a good archer on the enemy team like RK ExceededMerlin or Loo. You’ll have tons of trouble as any class but at least knights and Men At Arms have shields to offer some resistance and protection. Vanguards must resort to using objects around the map to block line of sight and on maps like the moor, you don’t really have much option. The only thing you can really do is run around like a wild horse and hope you don’t get shot.

    I guess you could say vanguards compensate for this with swords like the zweihander that can 1 shot archers. While this is nice, a zweihander using vanguard will almost always get demolished by even the averagely good Man at Arms players simply because the sword is too slow. So switch to your secondary you say!!! Well Vangurds don’t have many good secondaries in my opinion. The only ones I would use are the shortsword and Dane axe. And the man at arms can just dance around both of those too. I suppose I can deal with this however one thing I cannot deal with is the sword of war overhead stab combo or vise versa as a knight. That combo 2 shots a vanguard and it is over in almost seconds. As a knight myself I have done this countless times and the combo is so fast it’s just ridiculous.

    I think Torn Banner should slow the stab down on the sword of war slightly because I think it’s too fast. This is just my opinion however. For these reasons I think vanguard is the weakest. They’re great for running around the map fast and picking off damaged players and archers, but 1v1 I simply feel that some of their weapon loadouts put them at too much of a disadvantage to the other classes.

    Archers:
    My only issue with archers is the cudgel. The fact that almost every experienced archer uses it should be a clear indicator that there is something perhaps imbalanced about the weapon. They can get a 2 hit combo in before I can even bust out 1 attack and that’s already half my HP gone as a knight. Personally I don’t think I’d be bothered too much if you left this weapon the way it is. Whats your opinion on the cudgel?

    Despite all this, I think Torn Banner have made an excellent game and I’ve never got so much enjoyment out of any game before. I’m sorry if I come across as another crybaby forum dweller screaming “OP” “HACKER” etc. (I often do say that crap in the heat of the moment to let off steam) but I like this game a lot and think it could be so much better if the bugs were just fixed.
    -Also I’m in favor of being able to use the sword or war, messer and longsword, 1 handed on a knight without a shield!!! That’s my vote.
    -Also in favor of new helmets and further customization options! I want to “Pimp my knight” out with some bling

    Sorry for any spelling mistakes I’ve made and I’m sorry if some of my sentences don’t make sense. I’m somewhat illiterate,
    Many other topics I’d like to talk about. But these are the ones I wanted to discuss. All of this is just what I think and entirely my opinion. I’d like to hear what all of you think about these topics. Thanks!"
    ~Lucian



  • Huge post, but well structured, makes a change on here!

    Added some bolding and spacing for you to help split it up a bit.

    I’m sure they’ll appreciate the feedback. :)

    Btw post any Map Bugs you see here: viewtopic.php?f=87&t=10590



  • @BobT36:

    Added some bolding and spacing for you to help split it up a bit.

    Lolololololol.

    Good Guy Bob.



  • I agree with most everything you stated. Much of the vanguard, depending on weapon got nerfed while other classes got a buff thus over compensating and make it more imbalanced. Totally agree with archers and that their range + melee makes them OP. They should have even less armor and be easily one hit by more weapons if they fail to shoot you at range and you can get that close. Archers should fear heavily armored or big weapons but instead they whip out the cudgel and spam. Boom boom, parry, boom boom your dead.



  • Great post, I really agree with all your points. Pretty much sums up my experience with the game 115 hours in. Apart from the vanguard bit which I really havnt played enough of to make a valid opinion on.

    One other thing I find quite troubling is the huge disparity in the skill requirements to parry between facehugging range and longer range. I think it should be a little easier to parry from facehugging range.



  • Feinting is fine, theres only 2 weapons were its hard to tell if its a swing or not.

    Right now im constantly watching you guys play ping pong fests, i dont care how wildly you move your mouse, how many stab to lookdown overheads, how many times you bunny hop swing, how many times you lmb spam… it doesnt matter, i would and anyone else with any kind of skill in this game would be parrying all of those. Feints are what makes it tricky, what makes you second guess alot of swings and anything else. That keeps you on your toes for anything…without it this game will divert to ping pong stamina battles.

    Just back and forth swing parry swing parry until stamina runs out or a buggy desync happens. Nobody wants that, most feinters have a pattern, once you realize that then its a joke and if they spam… a crazy idea would be to swing… and catch them looking stupid.

    To stay on que with the post, the game IS awesome, the playerbase…not so much. Only thing that is reassuring but extremely scary at the same time is the upcomming patch. They say they are going to spend more time fixing mechanics which is a plus, but almost everytime they try to do something like that…or any game really…they end up with a world of more problems then before.



  • I agree with a lot of your points, espescially the lookdown overhead. Losing half of your HP because you weren’t expecting a lightspeed overhead in the face is pretty annoying.



  • good points, i really agree about the feinting: it should not be removed, but it should be fixed so that people cannot spam it anymore. Fighting a feint spammer is just no fun.



  • si sir, agree with all. Devs should def. read this. bµmpp.
    whatcha think about bein able to hold parrys?
    and i’ve been using dat warhammer for the last month and i gotta say, it is pretty sketch at times vs parry. i use it cause i like the timing n damage, never knew of any bugs. But it’s something that needs to be looked into for sure.
    -šµm sad o|d park rangeR



  • i was also going to suggest hold parry infinetly like a sheild would eliminate the feint drama for sure, plus we should b able to parry instantly and after being hit, that way we control the timing of things, this isnt an mmo we should b incharge of when we block and when we attack and not stuck waiting to be able to do it when the game says ok u can block now, ok u can attack now.
    u are already limited to the swing speed of ur wepon, so really a flinch just allows the 1st person to land a hit to usually win the fight i think
    also i think the vanguard and archers should b able to use the falschion, or all classes to use any classes secondarys would be need and just add more stuff to use in the game



  • Good, constructive feedback. Other threads could learn from this.

    Just to reiterate on what I can personally look into. Please post map bugs here:

    viewtopic.php?f=87&t=10590



  • @Andrew:

    Other threads could learn from this.

    Precisely^
    I quite enjoyed reading your post Harbinger, Respectful feedback like this is what making games better is all about.



  • Flinching:
    Flinching is in a weird spot at the moment for a lot of reasons.

    1. It frequently doesn’t actually work - you land your hit and the opponent doesn’t care and immediately attacks out of it.

    2. Even when flinching works, it’s really short. Let’s take the falchion - .2s flinch + .4s slash windup = .6s. Longsword combo time (shortest) is .65s. Longsword recovery time (shortest) is .75s. If you hit a falchion user with a longsword, flinch+slash will fit inside of your combo/recovery. If you choose to do anything other than combo>feint>parry, that falchion user can get a hit on you if he plays correctly. And then there’s those crazy .3s stabs on weapons like the mace where it isn’t even hard to do and good players basically always pokestab you after they get hit. I would not be averse to a longer flinch - getting hit in the face should not give you an opportunity to take the offensive. That’s backwards.

    3. Getting hit during release still allows comboing, which means if you hit your opponent at an unfortunate time you will get immediately smacked in the face by your opponent with no recourse (except combo>feint>parry). Of course, if you just stop comboing and force it into recovery, then the reverse happens - getting hit during release almost guarantees your opponent a second hit. I think if you get hit during release AND you would combo, instead you finish your release and flinch. Exactly as if you had been hit at the start of your combo windup.

    4. Ghost strikes. Sometimes your opponent will look like he is attacking out of flinch, but he isn’t, it’s just the anim with no real hits. Sometimes the ghost strike is real (see 1). So everytime you see your opponent do this, you’re immediately forced to gamble on whether you’re seeing a ghost strike or if they’re attacking flinchlessly.

    Feinting:
    This has been discussed to death, but I absolutely agree with you. Fun, intense swordplay is heavily disincentivized by feinting - after all, you can never trust a parry, so the correct answer is never be in a situation to parry, and that means don’t get stuck clashing swords (or whatever) with your opponent. Currently, competitive chiv styles are a boring pile of shit that involve crazy sprinting and footwork (which I like, but stays in the game even once you get rid of feints) and ATTACKMOAR (which is boring, but if you aren’t attacking you’re on defense and defense autoloses hard because LOLFEINTS).

    I think the solution is to add a window to the end of windups during which you cannot feint, which means carefully watching your opponent will allow you to see the feint. Feinting becomes a tool for baiting mistakes, instead of a thing that relegates parry to a situational gimmick by virtue of probabilistically exploding them.

    Lookdown Overheads
    Lookdown overheads I’m largely okay with - they do look silly, but I don’t see that many people going super overboard with them - a slight dip gets you all the speed you need, really, with the added benefit of more awareness. Most people parry early, not late (because ping forces them to anyway).

    1 handers:
    It’s not that 1hers are as long as 2hers, it’s that movement speeds are very high relative to weapon size. If you attack, your opponent absolutely can close the distance to facehug during your combo/recovery. Reach in this game means very little defensively - it’s an offensive tool.

    Warhammer:
    Warhammer is especially difficult to parry even among the 1hers, and that it can two hit knights is what tips it from “another annoying 1her with weird parries” straight into “fucking ridiculous.” Duel server also doesn’t display ping, and this game forces you, as the defender, to account for ping as you go to parry.

    Vanguard:
    Vanguards are destroyed by archers, gg no re. I don’t know how this is supposed to be solved, but it really should be solved. The usefulness of vanguards overall is pretty sketchy and situational.



  • @DSMatticus:

    Flinching: VS Feinting:
    I have not see or noticed a difference between the two.

    Lookdown Overheads
    Lookdown overheads I’m largely okay with - they do look silly, but I don’t see that many people going super overboard with them - a slight dip gets you all the speed you need, really, with the added benefit of more awareness. Most people parry early, not late (because ping forces them to anyway).
    Agreed

    Warhammer:
    Warhammer is especially difficult to parry even among the 1hers, and that it can two hit knights is what tips it from “another annoying 1her with weird parries” straight into “fucking ridiculous.” Duel server also doesn’t display ping, and this game forces you, as the defender, to account for ping as you go to parry.
    Same with the bearded Axe, way to fast to parry considering that parries are 50% effective at best

    Vanguard:
    Vanguards are destroyed by archers, gg no re. I don’t know how this is supposed to be solved, but it really should be solved. The usefulness of vanguards overall is pretty sketchy and situational.

    Totally agree with you on Vanguards, they should be able to 1 hit archers if they get that close, otherwise they are no threat what so ever.


Log in to reply