Vanguard charge!



  • I would suggest you remove the vanguard charges for it being pretty much useless and actually slower and shorter on range then a knight running/hit with maul or everyclass, not to mention predictable and easy to block and annoying for teamate when it’s with a slash attack!

    My suggestion: a battlecry that takes a few second to regenerate, when activated it regen ur stamina but stamina is what vanguard lacks the most in combat!



  • I really don’t want to take away the charge attack. I mostly use it for taking a BIG group down. Or at least lowering their health. A battle cry? Well not a bad idea, but I don’t think it should be added. Only a few seconds? I just crouch and my stamina will regen quickly



  • But, But all Helicopters need to charge or they won’t gain altitude.



  • well it should actually deal more damage, seen vanguard dying one hit from it but not an archer -_-
    could actually put an overhead charge for sword user instead of slash wich would make it faire for spears and halleberd since they only got low range poke charge…or the ability to choose the kind of charge!



  • At least in the Beta patch you can take yourself out of charge mode with a RMB.



  • I think to make them more useful, they should happen faster. The whole charge jump animation should happen faster so that it’s not so easy to dodge (for non MAA I guess).



  • @gregcau:

    So while I am on the fence for feints since they don’t bother me that much how about an alternative mechanic. Lets call it the wild swing. It goes like this

    • Instead of a LMB click its a LMB click and hold for an additional say .5s
    • These leads to a longer windup which your opponent with skill can see is coming.
    • If your opponent parries the attack he is stunned for a time relative to the attackers windup .
    • So the attack has just enough time to land a free hit. But make it so there is just enough time.
    • If this attack lands without being parried it does an extra 10% damage.
    • If this attack misses then the recovery is longer.

    This. Only for a vanguard instead of the stupid, idiotic sprint attack.

    @Thatoneguy5314:

    I really don’t want to take away the charge attack. I mostly use it for taking a BIG group down.

    Very nice. Could you please enlighten me though how you use the charge attack to take down a big group with spear, fork, brandistock, bardiche, billhook and halberd (i.e. 2/3 of V’s primary weapons)?



  • @Eleshar_Vermillion:

    @gregcau:

    So while I am on the fence for feints since they don’t bother me that much how about an alternative mechanic. Lets call it the wild swing. It goes like this

    • Instead of a LMB click its a LMB click and hold for an additional say .5s
    • These leads to a longer windup which your opponent with skill can see is coming.
    • If your opponent parries the attack he is stunned for a time relative to the attackers windup .
    • So the attack has just enough time to land a free hit. But make it so there is just enough time.
    • If this attack lands without being parried it does an extra 10% damage.
    • If this attack misses then the recovery is longer.

    This. Only for a vanguard instead of the stupid, idiotic sprint attack.

    @Thatoneguy5314:

    I really don’t want to take away the charge attack. I mostly use it for taking a BIG group down.

    Very nice. Could you please enlighten me though how you use the charge attack to take down a big group with spear, fork, brandistock, bardiche, billhook and halberd (i.e. 2/3 of V’s primary weapons)?

    Well I didn’t mean those above. I meant the vanguards greatswords. And the other part about taking away their health. Yes those above me.



  • I know quite well what you meant but I tried to point out that this questionable roomcleaning ability of vanguard charge applies only to 1/3 of his primary arsenal. Every other weapon does a single target stab that cannot often take down a stupid archer!
    Men-at-arms can use dodge very efficiently with every weapon, knights can switch between 1H and 2H always (with the singular exception of warhammer), archers get the backstab bonus with every weapon. But vanguard’s sweeping charge is limited to a small part of his primary arsenal (and makes no sense for the secondary short dicks), i.e. if you want to use the special ability with even a remote prospect of usefulness, you are very limited in your weapon choice.

    IMHO the best way is to remove the sprint attack and substitute it with a more useful special ability, for example the “wild swing” as described by Gregcow, the Dangleboob.

    Another interesting solution could be to allow sprint charge for every type of attack, i.e. swing, overhead and stab, for all weapons.
    Or maybe buffing it up somehow - I read a proposition to make it unblockable (which seems a little bit drastic to me but with some nerfing… maybe it could be blockable only with shields) or to make it stun the enemy…

    But as of now, the charge attack is borderline useless and very underwhelming. In fact I think that as the overall skill of the player grows, vanguards (that were thought to be OP initially) become more and more outclassed (competent archer can take down vanguard from the distance, MaA with his speed and mobility, knight with hit trading or shield-walling).



  • perhaps its not by running that this charge would come but holding the primary attack button, so can create new combo, LmB, Charge, Lmb, etc



  • I remember one time in the beta, I somehow about to Parry the charge attack by turning 180 and parried after hearing the groan



  • I just posted this in another thread relating to the Vanguard. I think this is something that would help a lot:

    @Cpt-Praxius:

    While I am open to having changes and/or improvements made in the game here and there, I don’t think beefing up the damage for Vanguard weapons is the best solution. While it will make the Vanguard a bit more on equal footing to the Knight, it would come at the cost of imbalance toward the Archer and MAA.

    So why not try and focus on some other areas to make the VG a bit more worthy of playing?

    Solution to make the Vanguard a bit more Viable with its Special Ability?

    • Make the Run Distance for the Charge Attack much less than it is. Should only be 4-5 steps since anybody and their dog should be at full speed at that distance. If someone doesn’t want to use the charge attack so soon, thrust or overhead…. in close quarters combat, most use the run feature to attack… 4-5 steps would be enough to allow for regular attacks at close range, but also a step or two closer to using the special attack if desired.

    • Increase the swing speed of the Charge Attack. Right now it’s too predictable and slow. In combination with the above, it would be a very viable tactic even in duels as the reaction time for players to counter it would be diminished. Also, with the charge attack being more useful, it could also give the damage boost to any weapon in hand while not affecting the base damage of said weapon to make it unfair against MAA’s or Archers… but could make those weapons closer to a one hit kill on them if the charge attack is used, while still allowing MAA’s & Archers to block or parry if their reaction time is decent (at the expense of stamina and the push back)

    With all the the above in place, people would have a bit more desire to using this special ability. Right now, very few people bother to use it, even in TO matches where you have plenty of area to build it up.

    Is this a step in the right direction at least?

    Making the Charge Attack like the above, it gives the Vanguard a bit more of an equal footing even against Knights and imo, a bit more equal to the MAA’s Dodge.

    Rather than trying to make the Vanguard more like a Knight or more like an MAA, it makes sense to me to focus more on the VG’s traits instead so it remains a unique class…… or becomes one in other’s views.

    Rather than just suggesting things be removed from the game, why doesn’t anybody at least try and make improvements on those things instead? :?



  • I agree with the op. Some things don’t need improvement, they need removal.



  • @samuraigen52:

    I agree with the op. Some things don’t need improvement, they need removal.

    It’s a part of the core gameplay…. it’s a part of what the game was as of original launch. It’s in the game’s manual, on the web site and everywhere else that the Vanguard has this feature.

    You can’t simply remove it because you don’t like it and the only viable option is to modify / improve it.

    And if something of a game’s core gameplay doesn’t suit you to the point of wanting it removed completely, then maybe that game isn’t for you.



  • @Cpt-Praxius:

    It’s a part of the core gameplay….

    Bah! It taught me never to LMB because in any moment there could be a total loss of control due to a leap attack. The problem is I have a psychological block to LMB even with other classes.

    While I really appreciate the possibility of cancelling leap attack in the beta I still think it would be better to reserve the ability to a special button (like dodge for example) because the biggest problem of it is not that it effectively prohibits you from LMB swing during the charging state (running with the weapon prepared for leap attack) but the fact that the charging state is activated unpredictably without any signal (running, preparing to LMB, attacking but the charging is activated half a sec before your attack which fucks it all up totally).

    Still it needs a rework (or subsitution) though because my complaint here does not aim at making the leap attack useful but at having the possibility to avoid using it altogether. Right now if it would be removed without any substitutions, I would be a happy man, but we can all agree that it would make vanguard too similar to knight.



  • @Eleshar_Vermillion:

    @Cpt-Praxius:

    It’s a part of the core gameplay….

    Bah! It taught me never to LMB because in any moment there could be a total loss of control due to a leap attack. The problem is I have a psychological block to LMB even with other classes.

    While I really appreciate the possibility of cancelling leap attack in the beta I still think it would be better to reserve the ability to a special button (like dodge for example) because the biggest problem of it is not that it effectively prohibits you from LMB swing during the charging state (running with the weapon prepared for leap attack) but the fact that the charging state is activated unpredictably without any signal (running, preparing to LMB, attacking but the charging is activated half a sec before your attack which fucks it all up totally).

    Still it needs a rework (or subsitution) though because my complaint here does not aim at making the leap attack useful but at having the possibility to avoid using it altogether. Right now if it would be removed without any substitutions, I would be a happy man, but we can all agree that it would make vanguard too similar to knight.

    I agree, it needs a rework. Vanguard lacks in having a class advantage. Even with the cancel I would still never use it because the small increase of damage is not worth such a long animation, even when it hits. Hopefully it will be addressed with the next balance patch.

    At the moment I would be more in favor of dropping it and coming up with something else rather than trying to fix it.

    Something like for example giving the vanguard a special attack that allowed them to attack with even greater range. Perhaps a one-button-long-overhead which costs a little more windup but adds an extra few feet to the range of the attack (extra stamina cost).



  • @Cpt-Praxius:

    @samuraigen52:

    I agree with the op. Some things don’t need improvement, they need removal.

    It’s a part of the core gameplay…. it’s a part of what the game was as of original launch. It’s in the game’s manual, on the web site and everywhere else that the Vanguard has this feature.

    You can’t simply remove it because you don’t like it and the only viable option is to modify / improve it.

    And if something of a game’s core gameplay doesn’t suit you to the point of wanting it removed completely, then maybe that game isn’t for you.

    I don’t like one technique in a game, and you think that the entire game may not be for me!? Wow! That is some really interesting logic. Core gameplay is subjective. Just because it was a part of the game at launch, doesn’t necessarily make it good.



  • @samuraigen52:

    @Cpt-Praxius:

    @samuraigen52:

    I agree with the op. Some things don’t need improvement, they need removal.

    It’s a part of the core gameplay…. it’s a part of what the game was as of original launch. It’s in the game’s manual, on the web site and everywhere else that the Vanguard has this feature.

    You can’t simply remove it because you don’t like it and the only viable option is to modify / improve it.

    And if something of a game’s core gameplay doesn’t suit you to the point of wanting it removed completely, then maybe that game isn’t for you.

    I don’t like one technique in a game, and you think that the entire game may not be for me!? Wow! That is some really interesting logic.

    What do you expect from a Klingon? It aint Spock.

    If you took away the charge animation and the leap and just made it a charge attack with normal recovery it would be perfect.



  • Haha, Well Cpt. Praxius does make some good points. I may not take his advice and say how I think the Vanguard charge could be improved, but I could at least say why I want it removed. I like to sprint into battle, and begin swinging my sword immediately. I don’t want to have to stop sprinting, then start swinging. The vanguard charge is so easy to block, and it sends both attacker and defender flying back. Perhaps a good solution would be to choose if you want it, just like you choose your weapon. What do you think Captain Praxius?



  • What if you start doing a charge if you hold your RMB pressed, and you will execute the blow when you release the button?


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