Are Archers Overpowered at a high skill level?



  • As title states. What are your guys thoughts? Average Archers are easy to kill, but Archers that really know what they are doing can pick off many targets at range AND still hold their own in melee. It’s something I seem to be experiencing more and more.

    Look at this video and decide:

    [youtubehd:2i49bjf6]990NEHe8aho[/youtubehd:2i49bjf6]



  • Cudgel OP :x



  • The only way to beat archer is to play archer. But lets determine what we mean by OP: pubbing, dueling, and clan battles.

    Pubbing: Most high skilled archers prefer defense (in TO) because it’s so much easier to play defending archer than attacking. There’s plenty of great high ground choices with cover that allow for easy archering. Some maps even have impossible to reach from attackers locations that you can easily snipe from, like Stoneshill and Hillside. And lets not forget throne room King defending archers. So, yes, archers are definitely OP when pubbing.

    Dueling: Well, those top skilled archers won’t miss their shots even if you have tower shields and/or serpentine and can easily kite on some maps like throne room and courtyard, plus they always got their cudgel and tied for fastest footwork in the game with MaAs, not to mention they have +50% melee damage to your back. So, yes, archers are definitely OP when dueling.

    Clan battles: (Speaking for LTS only) Organization and team work are the key. Most strategies and team comps come with at least one archer in 5vs5s, and since that’s all I’ve done that’s all I can speak for. A lot of those battles came down to the first few minutes just letting the archers take shots while both teams held a position. Typically one of those archers would net a kill and bam, 4vs5 or 5vs4 already for the rest of the melee players. There were some pure melee aggressive charges sometimes, but typically the team with the better archers won most consistently. While subjective and definitely open to debate as strategy and team work is what wins usually in clan battles, I still believe archers are OP in clan battles as well.

    So, yes. I believe archers are OP because the only way to beat good archers is to play a good archer.



  • Yes, extremely. Like the guy posting above me, I think that archer can be very overpowered in almost every setup if the person playing is good enough. What makes it worse is that the class, by design, works out of combat where any other class can’t fight back at all, which makes it entirely one-sided.

    The major problem with it as well is that in the hands of someone who is bad or mediocre at aiming, the archer is terrible, bordering complete worthlessness in terms of combat effectiveness and overall value to the team effort. So if the devs tried to nerf archer to be more balanced when used by more experienced players, it would absolutely destroy the class in low-level play.

    It really does show what a bad idea adding a dedicated range class to a game like this was, especially when they are capable of doing such high damage while being untouchable by every other class. Now it’s not a secret that I don’t like the archer class. I’ve already written an essay on why I think it’s a bad idea to include the class in the game with my own ideas on what could be done to improve it, so I’m not going to go on about that again. BUT I really, really think the devs should take a good look at how the class works and think about whether it fits into what they wanted and advertised their game to be about.



  • I’ve seen the video before. No doubt the 25 times he died and the 250 times he missed were edited out.

    Archers leading the scoreboard on TO or LTS is very rare.

    Archers leading duel servers is like finding a good hearted half-orc inside Sauruman’s army.



  • Archers are the only players against whom I will feint without compunction.



  • to find the weakness of archers, be a archer, btw they are getting rid of a lot of melee offensive bugs, the game will turn more defensive as it was before this last patch and poor archers wont get around your parry blocks so easily



  • (High skill) Archers are truly op against vanguards(and other poor guys without shields). If you do not have a shield, you will not get close to a skilled archer without being hit once or twice (=dead). We always use archers in our setups in IO and we had whole matches (5v5) decided by a single skilled archer. So yeah definitely op.



  • @gregcau:

    I’ve seen the video before. No doubt the 25 times he died and the 250 times he missed were edited out.

    Archers leading the scoreboard on TO or LTS is very rare.

    Archers leading duel servers is like finding a good hearted half-orc inside Sauruman’s army.

    You’ve never played against Javm or Moose, then.



  • Yes WE can be OP



  • In general you can over come any archer with some sneaky tactics or a shield.

    The very best of the archers will kill you no matter what, shield or no. (in the dueling scenario)



  • Nothing shown here was even slightly related to the subject of the main post, you posted a masturbatory montage of you playing ffa and stomping lvl 12s.



  • I am inclined to think that they are. It’s silly that they can get you even through a tower shield.



  • Most people are pretty stupid when they come up against a good archer in melee.

    They treat a good archer like a bad archer. Meaning easy kill for the archer.

    Treat all archers like an MMA. And don’t think your gonna win.

    I’m an objective archer so I have to be good in melee.



  • On the other hand you’re completely ignoring facts like:
    archers often die by 1 hit
    bowmen almost never make 1 hit (unless using warbow + broad against another archer), even HS doesn’t really count, which is a joke
    can’t even make a kick while holding bow
    is extremely dependent in FOV and surrounding awareness
    can’t switch fast to 2ndary weapon once being hit holding the bow in hands, so it more or less just waiting for that another hit to die, basically can’t really do anything except WASD. Even that unless survive 1st hit by some miracle
    like 20% hits aren’t registered at all just hearing “tick” (before patch we could see arrows stuck in “invisible” walls or shotting at someone arrows appeared stucked at his shield on the other side of his body)
    even for decent skilled aimer it’s not that easy to hit the target with this crappy netcode (with all desync, sliding,…)
    Actually the thing i listed at last is what bothers me the most. Ofcourse i could go on and put more, but the crappy netcode is gamebreaking for FPS gaming. Too much prevision before prediction, randomness, luck, bs,… and too little skill involved in this game.



  • @Peacerer:

    On the other hand you’re completely ignoring facts like:
    archers often die by 1 hit Like MaAs, good archers don’t get hit.
    bowmen almost never make 1 hit (unless using warbow + broad against another archer), even HS doesn’t really count, which is a joke Warbow + broadhead, or crossbow/heavy crossbow is all good archers will ever use.
    can’t even make a kick while holding bow Kicking into a headshot would be OP.
    is extremely dependent in FOV and surrounding awareness All classes are.
    can’t switch fast to 2ndary weapon once being hit holding the bow in hands, so it more or less just waiting for that another hit to die, basically can’t really do anything except WASD. Even that unless survive 1st hit by some miracle Good archers have their secondary out with plenty of time to spare.
    like 20% hits aren’t registered at all just hearing “tick” (before patch we could see arrows stuck in “invisible” walls or shotting at someone arrows appeared stucked at his shield on the other side of his body) Good archers never have this problem.
    even for decent skilled aimer it’s not that easy to hit the target with this crappy netcode (with all desync, sliding,…)I find it irrelevant, really. Melee have just as hard of a time, if not more since you aren’t in any danger but melee are.

    Reply in bold.



  • All I hear is a bunch of archer haters that just want to nerf em. For every good archer there are 5 good MAAs and 10 good knights. Archer versus a knight with a shield - good fucking luck.



  • @elitenoob:

    All I hear is a bunch of archer haters that just want to nerf em. For every good archer there are 5 good MAAs and 10 good knights. Archer versus a knight with a shield - good fucking luck.

    :|



  • @SOC:

    @Peacerer:

    On the other hand you’re completely ignoring facts like:
    archers often die by 1 hit **Like MaAs, good archers don’t get hit.**That’s bs. Take a bow and tell me how often you 1 hit MAA. Actually tell me how often you 1 hit anyone as a bowman. The camping archers don’t get hit, those who play objective get often hit.
    bowmen almost never make 1 hit (unless using warbow + broad against another archer), even HS doesn’t really count, which is a joke **Warbow + broadhead, or crossbow/heavy crossbow is all good archers will ever use.**And that’s what i said. Despite warbow there’s almost never a kill doing HS. HS should be greately rewarded, not like 5% more dmg.
    can’t even make a kick while holding bow **Kicking into a headshot would be OP.**OP OP OP what’s OP? That this is the only class which cant even fkn kick? Seriously?!?! A knight with fkn 20 kg tower shield + 1h can kick an archer with bow cant? That’s lame and you know it.
    is extremely dependent in FOV and surrounding awareness **All classes are.**Ofcourse all classes are, but non to such a level as an archer, it’s the only class who stops often. Its required for its mechanism (aim).
    can’t switch fast to 2ndary weapon once being hit holding the bow in hands, so it more or less just waiting for that another hit to die, basically can’t really do anything except WASD. Even that unless survive 1st hit by some miracle **Good archers have their secondary out with plenty of time to spare.**Ofcourse they do, but read above about FOV and surrounding awareness. When archer gets (surprise) hit, he cant even switch to 2ndary, can’t kick, cant do shit about… just waiting for 2nd hit which will definitely finish you or hope for some miracle.
    like 20% hits aren’t registered at all just hearing “tick” (before patch we could see arrows stuck in “invisible” walls or shotting at someone arrows appeared stucked at his shield on the other side of his body) **Good archers never have this problem.**LOL are you serious? Ask your own clanmate archers. Arrow hits aren’t registered ALL THE TIME. Its been like this since forever. Except that now most naps don’t know it, because arrows arent visible anymore stucked in body, shields… All you can hear is fkn “tick” “tick”“tick”, when it should obviously be a clean hit.
    even for decent skilled aimer it’s not that easy to hit the target with this crappy netcode (with all desync, sliding,…)**I find it irrelevant, really. Melee have just as hard of a time, if not more since you aren’t in any danger but melee are.**Sure, because aiming someone from a distance and doing 270°2m radius hit is the same hard with crappy netcode. It requires same skill level, right? O_o

    Reply in bold.



  • Chivalry hit detection appears to be attacker side. You don’t have to hit where they are on their screen, you have to hit where they are on your screen, then your client tells the server to deal damage to them. I’m sure we’ve all seen a laggy archer’s arrow/bolt fly wildly past us through nothing but air, then taken massive damage because it turns out that wild arrow was actually a hit. So complaining about the netcode is ridiculous - Chivalry netcode seems to fuck the defender, not the attacker.

    The rest of your complaints are mindbogglingly bad. Like you have no idea how much damage headshots do, and you apparently think archers can’t kick at all because they can’t kick with their bow out (kicking with xbow out would give you time to headshot them during the daze, it would be a free kill). And then you complain that people die when they get snuck up on.

    Now, more to the point: there doesn’t appear to be anything as competitively valuable as a good archer. It has the highest skill cap, and at that skill cap it is the best and most important thing in the game. It’s pretty OP. But I don’t know how you can make it not OP without neutering the class at a pub/amateur level.


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