Why do the Masons attack the Darkforest stronghold?



  • What has bugged me ever since… why do the Masons go such a long way to poison the water supply on the Darkforest map if they are going to storm the place anyway? If they succesfully infected the water supply, all they had to do is wait for a few days. Otherwise there is no need to drag a cart full of corpses through the forest.



  • Good point… Maybe they just want to add salt to the wound. :)



  • @Don_Kanaille:

    What has bugged me ever since… why do the Masons go such a long way to poison the water supply on the Darkforest map if they are going to storm the place anyway? If they succesfully infected the water supply, all they had to do is wait for a few days. Otherwise there is no need to drag a cart full of corpses through the forest.

    They wanted to fist the queen.



  • Maybe the water leads to some village/city somewhere and the people there are going to be poisoned, in addition to just having the entire royal (peasant) family killed.



  • @Don_Kanaille:

    What has bugged me ever since… why do the Masons go such a long way to poison the water supply on the Darkforest map if they are going to storm the place anyway? If they succesfully infected the water supply, all they had to do is wait for a few days. Otherwise there is no need to drag a cart full of corpses through the forest.

    I believe that their initial attempt was to indeed, poison the water supply(Which provides the water for more than just dark forest I think) but later found out the Agathian royal family was hiding here, thus making a perfect opportunistic attack



  • Has anyone realised that the “royal” family is wearing peasant clothes?



  • @Matti:

    Has anyone realised that the “royal” family is wearing peasant clothes?

    They’re incognito.

    So… are we really sure that was the royal family?



  • @Matti:

    Has anyone realised that the “royal” family is wearing peasant clothes?

    They were scared sh*tless by the Mason Order and thought if they dressed as common, er… commoners, the Masons wouldn’t notice.

    And yeah, the water supply, just looking at the size of it, probably supplied a lot more than a few mere cave dwellers… the fort they were in was probably the guard position for the water supply as well, yet the Masons came from the rear.

    I imagine the water supply / river leads to the other map where you slay the peasants, burn the village and eventually kill the King… which I assume follows shortly after the Dark Forest.

    It’s only Logical 8-)



  • @SavageBeatings:

    So… are we really sure that was the royal family?

    That’s an awful lot of troops to have sacrificed to protect a few peons…. all for a ruse.



  • @Matti:

    Has anyone realised that the “royal” family is wearing peasant clothes?

    I blame lack of resources



  • @Cpt-Praxius:

    I imagine the water supply / river leads to the other map where you slay the peasants, burn the village and eventually kill the King… which I assume follows shortly after the Dark Forest.

    Yes, one of the commander VOs on Stoneshill say that the Masons are coming through the Dark Forest.



  • @Cpt-Praxius:

    @SavageBeatings:

    So… are we really sure that was the royal family?

    That’s an awful lot of troops to have sacrificed to protect a few peons…. all for a ruse.

    Maybe it was a diversion, while getting the real royal family in safety!

    You’d think it would be mean of the Agathian nobility to put their servants to act as them, though. They’d know by now what Masons do do dead nobility… the corpses on the wagon weren’t common people, so to speak.



  • In the Create a Game menu, it says Mason’s are initially unaware of the royal family being hidden there. Any commander worth their salt would of course make the attack on the mountain hide away if the chance of killing the remaining descendants to the throne presented itself.

    I’d love to see a future TO map which shows the initial Mason Order beginning to take over Agatha lands. Sort of like the Night of Long Knives, you’d have Mason sleeper agents killing royal descendants to the throne and you’d have the Agatha forces who were left behind the invasion force to defend Agatha’s lands to help save the descendants.



  • The water supply is connected to stoneshill. They go to poison it for the siege of stoneshill. Which they haven’t found a way to get in yet.

    The royal family just happened to be hiding there instead of in stoneshill castle. Just pure luck for the masons.

    And the masons took over most of he lands of agatha pretty easily with little resistance and many agathian troops defecting to the masons. The map hillside is the second and largest wave back from Tenosia. And the map battlegrounds is the capital city of agatha. Now held by the masons obviously.



  • I’ve always wondered where the queen went and why she supposedly dies when her male offspring die.

    Also, why does the royal family, who were undoubtedly warned about assassination, not have a single scrap of survival instinct?



  • Would make for a good sequel if the Masons won in this game, Agatha falls and the next game reverses things by either the remaining Ag’s formed a new force under a new banner, or the Masons invaded a neighbouring kingdom that decides to put the boots to them.

    Agatha was pretty weak and a dismal Kingdom anyways. I mean, who wouldn’t stomp out something like the Masons at the first sign of trouble?



  • @Cpt-Praxius:

    Would make for a good sequel if the Masons won in this game, Agatha falls and the next game reverses things by either the remaining Ag’s formed a new force under a new banner, or the Masons invaded a neighbouring kingdom that decides to put the boots to them.

    Agatha was pretty weak and a dismal Kingdom anyways. I mean, who wouldn’t stomp out something like the Masons at the first sign of trouble?

    When your entire army is overseas its a bit hard to defend your lands.



  • @lemonater47:

    The water supply is connected to stoneshill. They go to poison it for the siege of stoneshill. Which they haven’t found a way to get in yet.

    The royal family just happened to be hiding there instead of in stoneshill castle. Just pure luck for the masons.

    I’m thinking something like this - There are two forces of Masons, the main one is besieging the castle and waiting to attack until the second force is coming through the forest. I mean, the ram to enter the Stoneshill castle comes from the opposite side of the map where the Dark Forest is located. And why poison the water if they haven’t besieged the castle for some time already?

    So, Mason force shows up outside Stoneshill castle and besiege it. The King decides to move the noble families and the Queen further behind the lines, to the Dark Forest outpost beside their water cistern. He never thought that the second half of the Mason forces would actually go all the way around, through the Dark Forest, poison their water and flank them. So, while this force is doing so, they encounter the royal families and of course siezes this opportunity! Agathian scouts did however notice this flanking attempt so the castle did manage to send out a smaller force to halter the Masons in Dark Forest, to avoid them noticing the royal families hiding there, but to no avail.

    So when the Masons have captured the Dark Forest outpost, they come rushing down the hill, flank the Agathians and sack their village. When this flanking force arrives, the main force initiate their attack. By the time the village is in flames, they have reached the gate with their ram and join the battle. Together they push the ram up to the castle and slay the King.



  • Many great answers in this thread, thanks to you all.
    But, well, assuming the water supply did indeed support Stoneshill as well, the question still stands - why poison their water and then order a risky assault with heavy casualties, when the Masons could simply have waited for the Agathians to surrender? That seemed to be their original plan, but after unexpectedly encountering heavy resistance in Darkforest, why waste even more men by attacking a well defended keep with a garrison at the border of dehydration? It`s not like the Masons were under time pressure.
    Also, doesn´t the description of Stonestill say the Masons “sneaked” into Stoneshill Valley and more or less are doing a surprise raid on the town? If that is true and the castle wasn´t under siege at all, then poisoning the water would hardly have been of any use.



  • @Don_Kanaille:

    Many great answers in this thread, thanks to you all.
    But, well, assuming the water supply did indeed support Stoneshill as well, the question still stands - why poison their water and then order a risky assault with heavy casualties, when the Masons could simply have waited for the Agathians to surrender? That seemed to be their original plan, but after unexpectedly encountering heavy resistance in Darkforest, why waste even more men by attacking a well defended keep with a garrison at the border of dehydration? It`s not like the Masons were under time pressure.
    Also, doesn´t the description of Stonestill say the Masons “sneaked” into Stoneshill Valley and more or less are doing a surprise raid on the town? If that is true and the castle wasn´t under siege at all, then poisoning the water would hardly have been of any use.

    It’s a bit of a standard tactic back in the day. When you are going to siege / capture a well fortified castle, if you can’t breach the gates and have to fall back due to too many losses, you can still surround the castle and hold everyone in there until they die off…. or wait until enough of them die or weaken and then go for a second assault.

    So long as the castle is still in command by the other force, their rule is still legitimate in the eyes of the people even if you control the rest of the land.

    It’s a back up tactic more than anything. Cut off the water supply to a castle / fort and you force the enemy to come out and fight… or die inside their own walls. Most would come out fighting in one last blaze of glory than die like sheep in a locked barn.

    If you just cut off their water supply and do nothing, then you give them the chance to flee and relocate somewhere else, thus an assault must occur soon after the water supply is cut off. If they flee, you may control the castle with little opposition, but if the enemy king or enemy leadership remains alive, then again, you haven’t truly won the war yet… while the king remains alive, his people will continue to fight for him, thus more fighting will have to be done by your forces, thus more losses over more time.

    The surprise attack on Stoneshill could have been accomplished if the two battles occurred shortly after one another, and if the Masons wiped out the forces in Dark Forest and killed the royal family, news coming back to Stoneshill of the assault and poisoning of the water would have to travel by foot

    Or if everybody was wiped out, no news would have been sent and the first sign of enemy contact would be from sentries in the Stoneshill area.

    If news did get to Stoneshill via foot… then it was by feet not much faster than the Masons, thus Stoneshill would only have a very short time to setup any sort of defense, which would also explain why the villagers were still in the village running around screaming their heads off in panic while Agathan soldiers tried to defend them and the castle at the same time.

    If they knew of the Masons approach ahead of time, the villagers would have fled a long time ago before the battle began, or would have been brought inside the castle walls… then the Masons would have had an even harder time capturing the castle because Agatha’s defenses wouldn’t have been spread between the village and the castle, but just the castle alone.


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