https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AroL-S9AXRAndFI3cmM2dzZRX2dFUnNfRWRpcENLa1E#gid=77

@KungFu:

What exactly was your method of testing then?

Testing isn’t required as 200ms has been explicitly set as the feint cut off in recent updates, nevertheless, set a macro to feint 200ms before the end of windup, less than that and the feint fails

@KungFu:

And I hope you’ve had the foresight to subtract the average ping milliseconds and parry start-up time.

Ping is an issue which is pointless to add in when it’s so subjective and can be any value above 0, it’s simply your responsibility to not play against people with pings you dislike, every mechanic in this game is reduced to a complete farce with bad ping so considering anything other than good ping would render any discussions useless. Parries have no start up time, which you can prove using ‘showdebug’ in the console.

@KungFu:

@NabsterHax:

You’re spreading mis-information that the game is about luck with feints, when hours upon hours of scrims with some of the best players in the world have never come down to luck.

Look, it’s not like I’m saying the mechanic causes the entire fight to be about luck. Obviously there is an element of skill in using and blocking feints. What I’m saying is that when a player attacks you with a well-timed feint, it creates a moment in the fight where the only thing that’s going to stop you from taking damage is a blind guess. This is luck. I really don’t see how you can call it anything else.

I created this topic because I’m tired of the ever-so-popular “feints can always be blocked if you time it well enough” argument. If you want to talk about misinformation then there’s the biggest piece of misinformation in this community. If you did actually watch the short video I made, you’ll notice that I calculated that the time between the last point you can feint (with a maul) and the first point you can cause damage is about 135 milliseconds, and that was me being generous.

Take this reaction time test and tell me if your average time is anywhere near 135 milliseconds:

http://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime/

Identifying whether or not a well-timed feint is going to cause you to either false parry or give you damage is a matter of pure luck. This isn’t a debatable issue, it’s a fact. I thought this was generally accepted here, and I expected this thread to be a discussion of whether or not luck should play a momentary part in combat, not to have to cater to the denial of people who have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the mechanic can influence combat.

The cutoff point for feints is 200ms before the start of release, if you’ve come up with other values then your method of testing was poor and I suggest you use a macro instead of stating misinformation as facts. Even if weapons connect at the moment of release they are reactable with that time.

There were many reasons why defending against feints wasn’t luck before feints were nerfed, now it certainly isn’t luck.

@KungFu:

Retreat, use of environment

Those are entirely situational and we should consider situations as if retreat is not possible

@KungFu:

well-timed ducks, jumps, multiple parries, riposte from one player’s attack onto another, unpredictable movement to make them swing and miss, or swing and hit each other.

I don’t dispute that requires skill but in order for those to be successful, your opponents have to time and/or aim their attacks poorly, meaning it’s less skill-based on your part, more relying on their lack of collective skill. Using feint also relies on their lack of skill, but feinting can open up a small window of opportunity into a larger one by forcing flinch on an opponent who doesn’t read/react to it correctly.

When against multiple good opponents, people are extremely limited in how useful their skill is with or without feints, but feints can raise the individual’s potential.

@Dr.Nick:

@Mean:

would be impossible if you couldnt feint one of your opponents and finish him fast.

Aha caught you bringing that up. You are basically admitting that you are using feints to make your opponent guess and kill them quickly or get killed quickly yourself. You’re not doing skilled moves which take longer, you’re feinting him to force a guess.

What ‘skill based’ moves would you suggest to defeat multiple opponents?

@Dr.Nick:

If you can’t get past someone without feints then why should you be able to kill them quickly with feints unless it’s imbalanced?

By this logic most things are imbalanced. If you can’t get past someone without attacks then why should you be able to kill them quickly with attacks unless it’s imbalanced?

@Evil:

You shouldn’t be able to change other peoples appearance at will with them not even knowing about it. And such a button will do exactly that.

Exactly like FoV, resolution and every other graphics setting

@Evil:

In a certain way its not different from having a button that makes you immune to Archer fire.

……

@Sidewinder:

So what’s your problem mate?

Your constant spewing of nonsense and your overzealous use of ad hominem.

@Sidewinder:

Hey I’m just repeating what TBS has said on the subject. If you think they did a poor job then take it up with them. Me saying they used a color-blind simulator to deal with potential problems isn’t untrue.

So you’ve made yourself the voice of TBS but not the ears…

They never said anything about testing between yellow and red, which is what I showed, thus colour blindness was not adequately tested.

@Sidewinder:

And lastly, in response to the screens you took. I can clearly see differences between your Agatha “gold” and the colors you showed on the Masons and specifically looked at the vanguard because of his potential ambiguity due to his similarity to the other team’s vanguard. Just my perspective but I don’t think I would have a real issue making a mental note that the color you see on masons is the one I’d be looking for for identification purposes in the future. None of the base colors that the Masons are wearing in those screens are something an Agathian can where as a base color.

In all of these examples, blue would still look mostly blue, my character is clearly more yellow/green than blue. My last screenshot clearly shows me looking more similar to Mason than Agatha.

@Sidewinder:

@Canadian:

Meh… I haven’t played in about 3 or 4 weeks and customization is pretty much the same as I recall when it was in beta. Frankly I don’t really notice it after 20 min of play time…… So in the end… Really was it worth the effort??. Aside from that… There have been a number of times that I “Went to town” … lol on a teammate because I could’t tell if he was friend or foe… The last one was a MAA in nutrual colours with no helm.

As for the the color blindness “thing”. I personally like 25% of all males am a bit “daft” when it comes to red’s and greens… ( God bless Cod and BF ) for introducing the “colour blind” mode… So Sidewider I would suggest stepping back from this horse shit that TB “Tested for colour blindness” before they released…

Anyway, I really did enjoy this game… I’ll come back next patch and see how things go.

Canadian.

Horse shit eh?

@CrustaceanSoup:

We have a colorblindness simulator in the game to try to work on this (colorblindsim in the console). It’s a rare form of colorblindness that would make the difference between saturated blue and saturated red indistinguishable, and even then we try to make the silhouettes of the different models distinct. Black and white/yellow are distinguishable regardless of color blindness, you’d need to be brightness blind (is that a thing?)

I don’t think colorblindness is part of whatever complaints people are raising.

Straight from a developer. I guess asking someone to do a modicum of research is too much to fucking ask. Derp.

Canadian’s Theme

**_I’ve arrived and now for my goal,

To regurgitate ignorance on every soul.

Moron’s my name, you’ll never forget,

For when I talk my mouth flows with shit.

_**

Here’s what 4 different colorblindsim modes look like:

In each case I am Agatha and everyone else except the knight in the fourth screenshot is Mason.

It’s very obvious people with colour blindness would be negatively affected by customization. Especially considering this is only 1 possible customization, I was the only character using customization, there weren’t many characters, Stoneshill is a relatively bright map, characters weren’t covered in blood and these are screenshots so we have much more time to compare colours.

Straight from a developer the game. I guess asking someone to do a modicum of research is too much to fucking ask. Derp.

Your speed still goes to ridiculous levels in the latest patch when you are above ground level during release.