@JimmyTryhard:

I like the way you think, Skresh, and I think you’re right about the handle hits.

Now that I think about it, I duel a guy regularly that uses a feinting maul and beat him quite easily as knight broadsword because his feints are easy to read. The only reason I ever even get hit is because of a handle hit/bad read.

Maybe we should fix handle hits before thinking about fixing feints. My idea would work in theory right now, but it wouldn’t fix the greater problem of handle hits and if this greater problem were fixed I am not sure if my idea would even be relevant anymore. We will see though.

I’m in agreement with you.

I wouldn’t go so far as saying that I’m right, as I’m just a simple pubber who occassionally duels the big guys…although, I do know handle hits as they stand now are in a very precarious situation. Handle hits remove the risk of the heavier weapons to a greater/lesser degree because their…well, you get hit in the moment of release. On the other hand, if you decide to balance around the handle hits, you can overnerf the weapon. Take the viking axe for example. Before the windup nerf, it was a one-trick pony, but an effective one. Feint into overhead. The handle hit made that very effective. As of now? It’s a joke-tier weapon, arguably worse than the dub axe.

We’ll see how it goes. Polehammer feints are frikkin’ deadly, but until handle hits are remedied, the best you can do is take initiative and hold it.

@Keith:

Lemon, please don’t post if you have nothing to contribute.

I’m afraid I must politely disagree with that statement. Even though it’s clear as day that he is using sarcastic, spiteful tones in his post, he still raises a valid point. For what purpose was the command disabled for and why? Sarcasm may be taboo, but it is a form of expressing your point and arguments. If it was a personal attack, I would agree, yes…but lemon is questioning TBS’s competence in the decision of removing the command, rude as it may be.

Maybe everyone should take a step back and recollect on the same page?

The head bob is a fun one.

Feinting with heavier weapons…they’re in a pretty bad spot with the flinch in release bug and most of them the problem stems from handle hits instead of feints. The Zwei and the Messer are probably the only two heavy weapons that can get away with feinting because of their accelerated overheads. Other heavy weapons just have too long of a windup time…If you also consider it some thought, you’ll hurt weapons that need CFtP most and buff weapons that don’t (maul CFtP times compared to dagger CFtP times.)

Heavy weapon feints are also incredibly easy to read from a distance, and it would be silly to try feinting in facehug range since you’ll get flinched into oblivion. You’re thinking of a theoretical sceario with something like…I dunno, the maul and feinting to victory, right? Feint. Explode head. Feint. Explode head. Repeat ad naseum. Well, you might or might not predict the use of the feint, but you’ll have plenty of time to discern from visual data rather than intuition. The only heavy weapon feints that work well are the ones that can strike at the moment of release. Handle hits from a polearm or Messer/Zwei accelerated overheads are a couple examples. You can’t wait for the grunt otherwise they will have already struck you. You can try to flinch, but the windup times are only a tenth or two of a second slower than most other two-handers. I leave the Gmace out because you’ll eventually notice the windup time if they’re trying to psyche you out with an accelerated. Heavy weapons don’t perform well with feints. You’re better of dragging or controlling your zone than feinting.

@JimmyTryhard:

Why don’t we all talk about feints instead of why rock paper scissors isn’t chance when it really is

Is as though the things I post are ignored, no?

What else do you expect when you make thinly-veiled threats?

You’re talking about duel mechanics more than anything else…and it’s very flawed. Feints aren’t the magic bullet, but the obtuse circumstances involved in the exchange that will win the fight. Someone who decides to feint outside of their zone in an attempt to psyche me or steps into my zone and then starts winding up, I will punish them 100% of the time and press my advantage. If they’re out of their zone, they’re gonna either whiff or disengage. Both times, I close the distance and initiate the exchange due to their stamina disadvantage. If they decide to step in my zone and then windup, I get a free hit or force a FtP, again leading to a stam disadvantage.

Feinting fights are almost 100% skill because you need to know weapon ranges and their attack patterns. If you know weapon ranges, you know how to start a feint fight. And after you engage, you’re thinking three steps ahead and playing off your intuition on how the player will react and catch them out of their parry. And lets just say you screw up somewhere and you’re getting feinted. The dreaded overhead brandistock feint at facehug distance into a stab/swing as an example. You can either dash to the left of the enemy player (tracers start on their right side) or you can pull a moose and matrix to victory since not a lot of people drag their attacks around while feinting. Some feints are near-impossible to read, such as the z-stab feint drag of the SoW. You can’t matrix away from it due to the enemy camera lowering to the ground into a successful overhead. So you rely on your intuition and try to break the combo with a kick and reset the fight, or attempt to disrupt the combo because 0.8 flinch times allow that.

And even then, this is a 1v1 scenario. In a team fight, feinting burns a shitload of stamina and increases the length of the fight, for better or for worse.

@Triumphant:

Gregcau, Cyber-Warrior and SUMMONER OF TORN BANNER EMPLOYEES, will embark on a brutal, protracted campaign of cyber-warfare against all those who dare kick him from servers.

BE WARNED, ALL YE

Mad CSIII skillz yo. Fox News will surely do a special on this madness

TBS tried to reduce the effectiveness of drags in Deadliest Warrior. Let’s just say even though the Longsword was swapped out for the SoW, dragging was a cinch. It didn’t matter that it reduced whatever damage by x amount, you couldn’t be beat if the opposition didn’t know how to react. What you are suggesting is that you make this a very…linear game where all one-handers will reing supreme.

If you want to remove dragging, you need to increase the mouse turn cap. Think about it. The long windup and release time of a two-hander will make it painfully obvious when a stab/overhead happens and you can easily sidestep it in your sleep or turn the MaA dodge into an IWIN button. They can’t drag the weapon back into you if you half-step away. One handers on the other hand just kinda zip towards your target with your footwork doing most of the work instead of weapon manipulation. So not only did you just turn the two-handers’ overhead/stab attacks into a dangerous, niche tactic, you overbuffed one-handers because they will hardly suffer from a higher mousecap. The dane ax/morningstar will suck a little more because of their longer release times, but nobody uses them anyways.

MaA who only rely on dodge are usually pub duel heroes or the 10-17 dude raging at his team in a TO game. You can either feint-chase or swap targets and then switch onto the MaA when he reengages. You’ll know you’re boned when the MaA outplays you from footwork alone.