@UnbornAssassin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5oXDyjFZ1c - Trailer

The Link is on the top Unborn. GOSH. =)

“Hello all. This is the information/announcement post for the Chivalry: Blood and Coin Championship tournament. Looking for information? Here it is:”

Hello all. This is the information/announcement post for the Chivalry: Blood and Coin Championship tournament. Looking for information? Here it is:
Hosts: Skillz, Simon, Spook, Unborn, and Height
Dates: August 1st and 2nd (Times TBD. Expect the whole day)
Modifications: MERCS
Format Size: All matches will be 6v6.
Format: 16-team LTS All Melee (No Projectiles) Group Stage, followed by an 8-team double elimination TO playoff.
Tournament Progression:

• 4 LTS groups; 4 teams per group
• Top 2 teams from each group advance to playoffs
• Playoffs consist of 4 quarterfinal matches, 2 winner’s bracket semi-finals matches, a winner’s bracket finals match, and a losers bracket.

Maps: Maps will be selected by a Picks and Bans System. There will be a pool of 7 maps for each game type.

• Graphics

LTS Picks and Bans: Each team will ban one map from the pool. Then they will each select one map from the pool. If the match is forced to a third tie-breaker map, one of the remaining maps in the pool will be randomly selected.
LTS Picks and Bans Order (BO3):
Team A Ban
Team B Ban
Team A Pick
Team B Pick
Third Map Selected Randomly from Remaining Pool
LTS Map Pool:
Arena
Moor
Argons
Impasse
No Mercy
Throneroom
Castle Assault
TO Bans: Each team will ban two maps from the pool. Then one of the remaining 3 maps in the pool will be randomly selected. If the match is forced to a third tie-breaker map, one of the remaining maps in the pool will be randomly selected by the head referee.
TO Bans Order (BO1):
Team A Ban
Team B Ban
Team A Ban
Team B Ban
Map Selected Randomly from Remaining Pool
TO Map Pool:
Darkforest
Stoneshill
Cove
Outpost
Hillside
Castle Assault
Shore
Prize Money: Current pool at $1000. Information on how to donate to the prize pool and how it will be divided between the teams will be available very soon! All money (after the exchange charges of the service we end up using) will go towards the players, and the top 8 teams all receiving a cut.
**WE WILL BE INVITING SOME TEAMS, BUT A SIGN UP PAGE WILL ALSO BE UP SHORTLY FOR OTHER TEAMS.

Hello all. This is the information/announcement post for the Chivalry: Blood and Coin Championship tournament. Looking for information? Here it is:
Hosts: Skillz, Simon, Spook, Unborn, and Height
Dates: August 1st and 2nd (Times TBD. Expect the whole day)
Modifications: MERCS
Format Size: All matches will be 6v6.
Format: 16-team LTS All Melee (No Projectiles) Group Stage, followed by an 8-team double elimination TO playoff.
Tournament Progression:

• 4 LTS groups; 4 teams per group
• Top 2 teams from each group advance to playoffs
• Playoffs consist of 4 quarterfinal matches, 2 winner’s bracket semi-finals matches, a winner’s bracket finals match, and a losers bracket.

Maps: Maps will be selected by a Picks and Bans System. There will be a pool of 7 maps for each game type.

• Graphics

LTS Picks and Bans: Each team will ban one map from the pool. Then they will each select one map from the pool. If the match is forced to a third tie-breaker map, one of the remaining maps in the pool will be randomly selected.
LTS Picks and Bans Order (BO3):
Team A Ban
Team B Ban
Team A Pick
Team B Pick
Third Map Selected Randomly from Remaining Pool
LTS Map Pool:
Arena
Moor
Argons
Impasse
No Mercy
Throneroom
Castle Assault
TO Bans: Each team will ban two maps from the pool. Then one of the remaining 3 maps in the pool will be randomly selected. If the match is forced to a third tie-breaker map, one of the remaining maps in the pool will be randomly selected by the head referee.
TO Bans Order (BO1):
Team A Ban
Team B Ban
Team A Ban
Team B Ban
Map Selected Randomly from Remaining Pool
TO Map Pool:
Darkforest
Stoneshill
Cove
Outpost
Hillside
Castle Assault
Shore
Prize Money: Current pool at $1000. Information on how to donate to the prize pool and how it will be divided between the teams will be available very soon! All money (after the exchange charges of the service we end up using) will go towards the players, and the top 8 teams all receiving a cut.
**WE WILL BE INVITING SOME TEAMS, BUT A SIGN UP PAGE WILL ALSO BE UP SHORTLY FOR OTHER TEAMS.

@50ShadesofClay:

Skills to reply back, yes I have like 4000+ hours now… and yeah when i play comp which is hardly ever anymore I do main the knight class. But 99% of the time when i’m not playing anything competitive, i play all 4 of the classes. This mod wants to be a part of the live game, so it has to balance for the live game into what it needs to be. Currently in live archers are too strong. People can talk about 5v5 or 6v6 situations in competitive all day long, but if this is planned on attemped live mod, think of the 95-99% of the game which is not anything competitive.

Archers currently are not only overpowered in ranged damage but melee altogether. I can run around with a shortsword and probably get just as many or nearly the amount of kills i’d get as a knight for sure. I’ve done it countless times. In competitive going that direction, archers with shortswords kill the best of knights and even vanguards.

Another thing about live is that you get hit by one arrow that doesn’t really seem to matter what bow it comes from and you’re damn near crippled.

It’s hard not to be biased against archers when I’ve played every class trying to counter them yet I still die and even the scrubbiest of scrubs can land shots easily and do massive amounts of damage because of how broken it is. You don’t even need any skill to be an archer typically. The only real skill involved is when you’re talking about archer vs. archer. An archer shooting as melee is not skill, they cannot counter you in any way at range, and don’t say use a shield because I’m pretty sure we all know shields don’t really help the situation. (one because your shield can be shot around, and 2 if you’re using the shield to protect you at range then you get stuck trying to fight with a shield which is awful if you don’t use shields and you get stuck on defensive with people just swinging on you, and you need to swing at some point and are wide open when swinging and of course good archers shoot you at that point) so no shields are not an answer.

So the faster regen is awesome, that gives some viability to survival against archers. Nerfind the damage needs to be done, the ammo count i already suggested that many times so limiting the number of shots is great. Ultimately, archers have been overpowered for so long that they’re used to being so powerful. If you guys can still land your shots it’s still a viable class. They just can’t continue to be the menacing bringers of death they are right now, and i think current archers need to get real about that.

I’m all for making changes to the knight if people think it’s overpowered, like messer is pretty broken for example, and maybe sow stabs are a little dumb.

But then i’ve played mercs and the first hit flinch seems to be very strong for 1 handers and vanguards too.

Idk but since this is an archer discussion, they need to be nerfed. You compared nerfing to balancing… well nerfing archers is kind of HOW you balance them. I would not suggest buffing them is the right direction or leaving them the same. I’m pretty sure the balance council knows this and are nerfing appropriately.

To be straight with you Clay I stopped reading this post after you said “You don’t even need any skill to be an archer typically” You saying that just proves how biased you really are… The archer class is a “high risk, high reward” class. If you’re bad then you won’t kill anything and be on the bottom of the scoreboard. Though if you have skill you land a lot of shots, can hold your own in melee and be supportive of your team. There’s a lot of skill required to be a good archer. (eg, positioning, accuracy, melee, support, communication) A pro archer perfects these skills to make you THINK that it’s mostly archers that are OP, when it in reality it’s just the archer you are fighting who is OP. ARCHER is the most OP class in this game only to those who know how to use it. These balance changes are limiting the capabilities of the skillful players wielding the class more then the actual class. If you were to go up against an average archer with these changes you would barely notice him being there…

If you can’t see the truth to this then you’re extremely biased or really don’t care. Regardless, I’m done arguing my point, I’ve wasted enough energy on this topic so I wont be replying to anyone on this thread anymore.

@parkrangerstan:

Let’s dissect this.

1. I’m not an inexperienced archer, I have nearly 1,000 hours playing archer specifically (~2,000 playing knight/other) as the archer for Nira and my own clan before I joined Faucheur- much of which was well before you even bought this game. Crazy huh? I’m not trying to pretend that I’m some 1337 archer ( and never have), but I’m decent and I have a significant amount of experience playing the class.

2. Melee targets are melee targets for the most part. And I was being counter-arched by a pretty good veteran archer (Chicken). I didn’t do well because of the quality of team I was facing (for the most part). I did well because I was landing my shots.

3. My score does prove it’s possible to do well with ONE setup as I mentioned. If anything the fact that I’m not experienced (according to you) would help my argument.

4. You clearly didn’t read my entire post. I said explicitly in my post that this was ONE very specific setup that I had success with, in ONE game.

5. You also must have missed my post where I said (and here’s the kicker) “It’s impossible for me to have a completely unbiased opinion of archer since it isn’t my main class.”- Stan earlier this week.

I specifically said that my experience does not portrait the current state of archer as a whole, merely one specific setup and solely my experience with that setup in one game (although I’ve had further success with it now in later scrims). Although that should be a given since it’s my account of my own experience. Clearly you’re emotional about this because you must have read every other line of my post. You also must have missed the part where I said it needs further testing, and that archer will likely need a buff again.

Lastly, Cervantes echoed my thoughts almost exactly on the current state of archer. We both agree the Warbow with broadhead is viable; while other setups are far less viable.

Of course you have the right to aggressively assert your point, but don’t discredit other people’s experiences simply because your emotions are getting the better of you.

Skillz, it’s important to fully understand someone’s viewpoint before you attack it.

1. If you have so much experience then why in your argument did you make it seem like this was not the case? Please refer to your previous statement.

2. I agree, Chicken is a good archer. Though I’m going to refer back to what I previously said. If you have at least 1000 hours played then you have a good understanding of the game as a whole. Obtaining a good score as an archer really does not prove anything, not with the amount of hours you have clocked.

3. Please refer to number 2.

4. Well then I apologize for not paying full attention to one of your posts.

5. You and I agree on this.

6. I’m discrediting you because I do not agree with you on a few key points. Not because my emotions are getting the better of me. I only let my emotions get the better of me when I scrim, you usually experience my emotions during scrims and tournaments. :)

Stan, try not to jump to conclusions.

@parkrangerstan:

I got 30 kills tonight in a scrim as an archer w/ warbow broadhead (which I haven’t played in ages) 10 kills on enemy archer, 15 or so on melee as well as 5 or so shortsword kills. I was also being counter-arched by a good archer. This is not indicative of the class as a whole, just a single viable setup. I personally believe that the other weapon choices for archer are less viable, but my opinion may change as I spectate more scrims. I’m interested in seeing other archers use the warbow, as well as xbow, heavy xbow and heavy javs.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, warbow is viable, yet time will tell for other setups.

Everyone needs to realize that Mercs mod, in it’s current state, is just a giant test build for a far more polished end-product. Nothing is permanent. The great thing about Mercs mod is that the entire community backs it and every view point gets a say. If you don’t get your way, it’s not because people aren’t listening to you, it’s because the majority have spoken. We will find a middle ground that makes everyone (or at least the vast majority) happy, which obviously includes archer players. This being said, it’s important that those that don’t approve of the alterations voice their opinion loudly so that the changes can be reviewed.

Did you fight the least best clan N/A? Is making a post about how you got a good score against some clan as an inexperienced archer supposed to prove a point? If you have at least 1000 put in to the game and a good gamer in general you could get that score with any class. This proves nothing. Yes everyone is on board with mercs mod, I myself support it. Though if there were nobody to speak up for archers I have a good hunch that the possibility of these changes being permanent are highly likely. I could be wrong, butt I’m not willing to take that risk and neither is a lot of other people who agree with me.

Also keep in mind that the majority of the council have been harassed by OP archers for 2 years, to say you have a 100% unbiased opinion of archers is a filthy lie (unless you’re a saint)… Anyways… Because we have spoken up I’ve been informed that the balance council is now taking a second look at some of the ammo and damage changes and ACTUALLY taking our points into consideration (which wasn’t previously happening).

This is all I wanted to have happen, was to be listened too and have our points taken into consideration… That was the whole point in making this thread.

@50ShadesofClay:

have you played it? i’m hoping to get some more action on there this weekend with the new update. I noticed though when i was playing that vanguards and maa are much stronger than they are in vanilla at least, and it’s not just range its the ability to flinch too and that distance factor helps with that because you can make sure your hit hits first by using that range so that their attack won’t hit you as fast as yours will. There’s a lot more to consider than just the aspects that you do in vanilla man.

And i think the 22 damage to knight must be one of the weaker bows like shortbow or something you’re referring to. I was going off the reg cross that skills mentioned as i’m not responding to anything in my post but the original post. Said 30 damage to torso for reg cross. It’s not going to necessarily take 4HTK because you COULD land a headshot with it and have less, just like you can land headshot with longsword making it a 3HTK on knights. A lot of the numbers used are based on torso damage which isn’t as strong as landing headshots. Archers that can hit the head a lot will certainly be rewarded with less HTK.

We’ll have to test to see how it works out, i’m sure it will be fine. I’ll even play archer a bit myself (although i’m a shitty counter archer and will be focusing melee) and if I can take down melee as archer in mercs, i don’t think any good archer should complain. We shall see.

You are correct… It wont necessarily take 4 shots though the majority of the time it will… Any half decent archer will aim for center mass due to the fact that landing head shots is not an easy feat… And if any archer says it is they are a filthy liar or a dirty dick butt hacker.

Also just about every good archer is complaining because a good archer knows that about half of these changes are meant to nerf and not balance. (see previous posts for explanation)

Take a second look at these changes Clay and try your best to not be biased while doing so, you sexy 2000+ hours knight you. =)

@J-P:

Personally as an archer all I care about right now is balance between ranged weapons, archer balance itself needs to be tested which I can’t do 'cause EU scene is dead. Just take into consideration that an archer needs to be able to do enough for it to be at least as useful as melee in the hands of a good archer. Is being able to deal some damage and flinch worth going 4v5 in melee instead of 5v5? Dunno. Needs testing.

Fact is that I and the former(he’d still be, no one’s just active these days) top warbow archer EU agree that light crossbow is harder to use than warbow. I can admit that shooting someone is often easy, not always but often. However, lcb’s slightly faster projectile doesn’t make it too much easier.

I’m gonna make a comparison between the two weapons I truly know. I base these around having two good archers against each other.

Light Crossbow
Slightly faster reload, but extremely vulnerable, legs can be shot even when turning around with the shield and even turning around makes your fire rate slower. If you play it safe and move behind cover to reload every time your fire rate is effectively much slower than warbow’s that can keep spamming arrows all the time while moving into cover and away from cover, warbow can even do without cover if really needed.
Faster projectile speed, useful but is it useful enough when you’re either extremely vulnerable while reloading or safe but your fire rate is shit and warbow can oneshot you to the chest? In a scenario with two good archers, warbow will have significantly faster fire rate with small projectile speed difference.
Poor counter-archering, hitting the head possible only if you get really close or the enemy archer makes a mistake, like letting you get too close.
Deals less damage to every class

Warbow
Slightly slower reload, can be mobile while reloading which allows for higher fire rate in a scenario with two good archers.
Slower projectile speed, not much and often if you miss with the warbow you would’ve missed with the lcb too.
Good counter-archering, hitting the body is doable and it gives a lot of pressure.
Deals more damage to every class, even when using broadheads.

Now why do people say lcb is easy, lcb is op? I know why. There aren’t enough good archers. If there’s no archer that can effectively counter-archer you, punish you for your mistakes, force you to go behind cover to reload, pressure you, it’s better than warbow 'cause it has faster projectile speed and faster reload. When there are two good archers against each other, warbow is easier to use simply because you can keep moving while spamming arrows, lcb’s reload doesn’t allow you to spam arrows without someone headshotting you so you need to be more aware of the enemy archer and pay more attention to positioning. Now remember when I said that shooting is often easy? With both warbow and lcb. Difference is warbow can shoot more worrying less about positioning or getting oneshot to the chest by someone who you can’t pressure back as much. This is why I make the argument of lcb being harder when there are two good archers against each other.

Just don’t try to balance archers around anything other than having at least 1 archer per team meta. Think about it like this, crossbows get something extra 'cause they doesn’t have mobile reload, right? Now the reload makes playing crossbows harder only when there’s an enemy archer, so when there’s no enemy archer or he’s bad, obviously crossbows should excel. Take into account that there aren’t too many decent archers. At least in EU.

Now javs, they are extremely mobile. Deserved the nerf. They’re harder to counter-archer 'cause they never need to even slow down to reload and they have the buckler, slower projectile speed means nothing when you can get in “point blank” range thanks to the buckler and stabbing capabilities. Approaching an enemy archer is easy when he can consistently shoot only your feet, and if he shoots he can’t reload again 'cause you’d oneshot him to the chest. If he waits for you to throw the spear so he could headshot you mid-throw, you can just get into his face and stab him without even changing weapon.

Just making my experience known, can’t test or suggest too specific changes 'cause no one here scrims anymore.

Thank you JP for explaining this I agree with you 100%. In my earlier response to height’s post I also mentioned that because I am rarely counter arched… It plays a big part in me seeming OP when using the light crossbow or any good archer for that matter…(see earlier post). If I’m using a bow, reg xbow, lcb or even warbow. The end result is the same. A good archer is going to land a lot of shots. If I’m counter arched and properly pressured by lets say Antsii or Russian Mafia… Then the enemy Melee will notice my presence a lot less.

Instead of resorting to certain nerfs, take other things like this into consideration. Don’t punish an archer for mastering their class.

My responses to heights comments are in my previous post, you just have to look carefully. I don’t use the forums, so if there was an easier way to reply I apologize lolol.

@HeightofAbsurdity:

Well I’d like to preface this all by saying this is a TEST BUILD. We’re just testing things to see how they work… to criticize it before you’ve tried it is already presumptive. To do it on the TBS forums trying to “speak up against this…for everyone” sounds… yeah…

I mean besides the fact I’ve never heard anyone on the council say it shouldn’t be support (and if you absolutely wanted I’m sure I could hit up Spook to get the recording of pretty much everyone on the council agreeing it should be support), what would that even mean? Assist and support are more or less the same thing. If you support someone, you help them accomplish something. If you assist someone, you help them accomplish something. I don’t understand…

SkiLlZz Response - I have no doubt that you have recordings of people saying it should be a “support” class… That does not mean it wasn’t said outside of members of the council meeting. I really do not feel like pointing fingers, this is not a blame game Height.

As I mentioned above, this is a TEST Build. I’ve gone on record (before this post was made and Spook can probably show you the recording) in saying I actually think its quite likely the numbers that go through finally will be less of a nerf, but we’ll have to play to find out. So just keep in mind that “changes” means “TEST changes”.

SkiLlZz Response -Yes, lets call it a “Test” the council created and voted for these changes. Of course they will be happy with them and finalize them… Though you are right, I will try not to judge this too quickly. I will give it a shot.

Well besides the fact that “taking away incentive to play a class” is technically true of any overall nerf so you’d have to commit yourself to the position that overall nerfing any class is never a good thing (which I don’t think you mean to say), is this just hyperbole of what you actually believe? If Warbow bodkins and Crossbow bringing Vg’s into 1-shot range of EVERY Knight and Vanguard primary with one torso shot is “barely a dent”… maybe. We also upped headshot multipliers so even shortbow bodkin (which now has archer flinch, will be a bit faster than in live, and has more ammo than ever) takes out half a knight’s health with a headshot. Don’t get me started on Heavy Crossbow or the Javs… how are these not significant damages? Many of them are actually more than or equal to tons of melee weapons that are common…

SkiLlZz Response - I can bring you 50 different scenarios of how these are not significant damages. Like I said in my previous post, I agree that a lot of the changes are okay and should be official. What I do not agree with is your argument. You are basically saying that “because an archer can damage a melee class to the point of being one hit away from dead by a specific weapon from another melee class. The archers damage needs to be nerfed to the point where this is not the case” Is this correct? If that’s your argument why not just nerf the damage of certain melee weapons? Why do archers have to get the full force of damage reductions?

I mean 48 damage to a vg puts them 1shottable by EVERY knight and vg primary weapon the game, and most 2 handed swords could always 1 shot archer. We literally haven’t changed any htk’s for them…

SkiLlZz Response - Did you forget about the health regeneration nerf? If I’m not in line of sight of my target they can just hide and regenerate their health. Then they are back to full health in no time. There are things you are not taking into consideration with this argument.

Certain attacks do more damage, but htk’s are pretty much even. we’re talking about one type of attack doing 10% more damage that changes incredibly little. In melee, every bit of damage can matter because the melee classes are a bit tankier so there’s more opportunities for damage to stack up. In live, you’re either one shot or two shot if you’re an archer. It’s the same way here… though there are much fewer trades against archers now because of first hit flinch. Archers can flinch easier without as much fear of hit-trade, so yeah.

SKiLlZz Response - 30 damage to knight torso is an even htk from before? I disagree… Though I do agree that the archer flinch coming back will make things easier for our mele to get kills.

So here is why this is a cherrypicked, inapplicable, and virtually meaningless argument:
1. You start this scenario after the melee have already engaged. Archers have ranged dominance and is the class BY FAR most capable of affecting the fight before the melee engages. You’re basically saying lets evaluate how effective archer is in this scenario after one of their largest advantages has been negated. I mean, if they’re able to break off two knights to run at you… actually…

SkiLlZz Response - The fact that you think my argument is meaningless tells me that you’ve made up your mind about these changes and are not truly open to changing your mind. Even if you say you are… YES, as an archer I have the ability to deal damage from far away. IM AN ARCHER ITS MY ROLE, and yes this will wound the enemy team going into battle. This was just a rough example of how archers are losing their ability to be effective against knights. Instead of just nerfing one of our main advantages, why not consider other solutions? HOW ABOUT A STRATEGY?! When Tempest fights Nemesis, (which btw is now my new rival) I am forced to focus Antsii because he focuses me. Antsii positions himself in such a way where I am almost not able to shoot his mele and be effective from far range, Antsii puts pressure on me because he’s a good shot and knows how to protect his melee. If you had an archer that actually positioned himself in a match to put pressure on me. I can guarantee you will not feel my pressence as much as you normally do when you fight Tempest. You are nerfing that main “advantage” archers have to mitigate lack of strategy. Try it. It works for Nemesis. One of the top 2 clans in Chivalry.

2. You picked a scenario where their core is breaking off to fight you? MAA’s I can see… Vg’s even. But two knights? This very very rarely happens. If one is an MAA, they’re 2 shottable by your weapon. If they’re a Vg, then you can get them heavy kickable. Of course, that’s if you hit the same one… which why wouldn’t you? I mean, once one is low, wouldn’t u want to aim at that one again instead of hitting one of each? Speaking of which?

SkiLlZz Response - After hitting a target I switch to another target. I attempt to wound the entire team before they reach my team. Seriously forget I even used the 2 knights as an example. I was trying to point out how ineffective archers will be when shooting a knight. I can easily switch this up and focus the same knight. (using this same example) If I hit the same knight twice, he has 40% of his health left. A good clan will be able to 2v1 without getting hit. Or even having the other knight 1v1 to let his teammate regenerate. One way or another if both knights are still standing the chances of me going down like a sack of potatoes is highly likely.

3. Wait, so these are two FULL health knights? They just got shot at before the engagement, got through throwables and firepots, and engaged in the melee, and they still haven’t been touched?

SkiLlZz Response - And if the enemy archer applied the proper pressure then I would either be dead or pinned down and the enemy also used throwables fire pots on us. Like I said we can add onto this scenario and keep going… lol

4. And they can get to you before you can get 3 shots off? Shoot, 3.5s (reload, recover, aim), shoot, 3.5s (reload, recover, aim), shoot. That means that knights, the slowest class in the game, are zig-zagging and trying to use what cover they can while still moving forward and yet they still get to you in 7 seconds? This is probably because you play very close to your team, but you do this for easier shots. If this happens, its a good downside to have.

SkiLlZz Response - First, I do not do this for easier shots. I play close to my team so if the need arises I can easily switch to melee and support my team. Go ahead and watch the grand finals tape or better yet watch one of the Tempest scrims sometime. A lot of my kills are melee. Second, without a pavise shield to make up for the lack of ammo to ACTUALLY BE EFFECTIVE an archer has to be stationary to reload. You can use a projectile to flinch the archer… Oh and btw cover isn’t always around… And if I was really far away to get more then 2 shots off and the enemy melee is still running after me and not the objective then that’s just a bad call. I prob still wouldn’t be able to kill them due to the nerf…

5. This is a situation you have relatively no chance in even in LIVE. Instead of 2 of them at 70% health (each 3htk with shortsword stabs), you’d have 2 of them at a bit under 50% health which would be 2htk with shortsword stabs. What you’re basically saying is “I don’t want this 98% impossible situation to become 99% impossible”… I just don’t see that as meaningful.

SkiLlZz Response - Please stop referring to this example, It was a bad example and I’ve made my point in response to your other comments, scroll up…

It’s weird… I’ve had people say that the relative balance of bows vs xbows with these changes will give no reason to go bows over xbows.

SkiLlZz Response - It is weird… I’ve had people completely disagree with this as well. Low ammo with pavise or normal ammo without a pavise… The obvious option is to choose the extra ammo. Why would a xbow archer play xbow without his pavise? He will be exposed to enemy archer fire and stationary at that. This may be easier to do on the defending team but not at all on offense. The bow archer will have a major advantage. All this need to be taken into consideration.

It’s weird… I actually talked to you briefly about the values and you said you were okay with them if I recall correctly… Remember when you, me, and omega were in ts3?

SkiLlZz Response - Not everything was discussed. Also the changes mentioned didn’t turn out to be what actually came to pass…

I’ve done this with my clan, have talked to others about their opinions (including you briefly btw…), and have encouraged all council members to do the same. In fact, we just started talking today in a meeting about a way to have class specialists vote on the council only on specific items that affect thier class to allow more community input. Hell, I even go on random MERCS servers just to ask people what they think.

SkiLlZz Response - Thats awesome =)

By the time I showed up in TS3, you seemed pretty good with the changes and said as long as the values for your xbow were what they were in the sheet that you were good more or less. I know at least Omega has talked to me about what you think during our balance discussions. That said, I think you may be mistaking disagreeing for not having “really listened and taken consideration”.

SkiLlZz Response - I’ve listened. If I’m mistaken about anything it’s because I was given the wrong information or the person giving me the information wasn’t specific enough. There have been more discussions then I can count…

Flame and Dofoo have been vocal about trying to minimize archer nerfs. Flame is a large reason for the 200% head damage multipliers for bows hitting melee.

SkiLlZz Response - Then I apologize to Dofoo and Flame. Thank you =)

Ditto :P

SkiLlZz Response - Ditto Again