The dev’s need to stop seemingly trying to support broken mechanics they have already made and move on to making better ones. It appears as if they are keeping plainly illogical made mechanics because it might hurt their ego to trash some of what they made.

Also it would help if they took the things other melee games have done right and incorporated it, instead of trying to strictly do their own broken melee system.

No one ever made a great movie, book, game, etc by not seeing what others before them did and using it. They probably should research older games as well to broaden their view and think outside of the box.

Though this falls on deaf ears.

There’s issues currently in the management of the game that restrict many of the good ideas from surfacing anyway. Those need to be addressed before you can expect anything to improve much.

One major question I have. What does Tibberius actually do besides be PR guy and pretend he knows what he is talking about? He obviously isn’t a programmer. As far as I know, he doesn’t map, model/skin, do sound/audio, do animations, except minor help sometimes.

He doesn’t have in depth knowledge of how the game mechanics work it seems either. Maybe dealt with getting the game on the market and such? He mostly appears a PR guy that was perhaps picked because he looks better than the programmers that stare at a screen for hours on end and speaks english. So is he actually the “Lead Dev” that makes actual decisions for the game?

The times I’ve played with him, friend’s of mine have had the courtesy of explaining the game to him while being given answers back such as “Oh yea, that’s what I meant.”

@Strudel:

I think it’s best to leave the timings as is for now. I’m fed up with the amount of times I’m forced to relearn positioning and combat beats. One or two small adjustments to damage is fine, but changing slash timings across the board would just do my head in.
I’m not even sure I agree it needs a change in either damage or speed. It’s a great tool for beginners that leads them into the true meat of the combat mechanics. Of course nerfing it could lead them into advanced combat at an even faster rate, but it could just as easily turn them off the game altogether.

This game’s combat is as complex as left click > right click > left click.

Any new player can bother to do this and they are as good as top competition. The melee combat skill ceiling takes all of 5 minutes to reach.

New swing directions serve no purpose other than aesthetics currently since, like I said…

Left Click > Right Click > Left Click. Then sometimes just Left Click alone and rinse, repeat with random pattern.

I’m not sure where Strudel is making up all these complexities that do not exist in the game.

Archery in this game is actually more impressive than it’s melee combat system :/ .

@ReMixx:

@Mike_Effing_Jones:

I only ever actually get kicked when I’m trying to kick people with 200-300 ping or teamkillers.

Otherwise I just get called a hacker-etc and people decline the votekick.

200-300 ping is not terrible. Do not do this on Official Servers as it will be considered abusing votekick. If it was 400+, then it would be better to ask them to leave the server.

Usually anything above 150 ping begins to have de-sync issues. Where the player begins to teleport and have attacks/movement visuals that are completely out of sync with what other players see. At 200 ping it becomes a constant non-stop thing.

As a follow up to any reply you might give to this(because I’m not going to reply further)… If you disagree, then I can’t help but think you are intentionally playing blind to suit whatever view you wish to have and I can’t discuss with that unless it were only to gain fun from it.

Take what you wish from this.

This works pretty well.

Video proofz…

http://www.twitch.tv/malekous/b/344575332

Whether done small increments or in one patch wouldn’t matter to me.

Though my logic behind it being done in one patch is that if things are done in small increments, it’s much easier to make mechanics that contradict each other. Such as in the beta patch, your weapon got knocked back for hitting walls/floor yet you could still combo feint-block. This also makes all recovery’s practically ignorable in the current build.

Or currently how they added idle flinch but most of the time it does nothing since players get hit often in the last moment of their recovery, so they still trade swings.
Assuming that contradicting mechanics are caused by making a new mechanic while leaving an old one that doesn’t fit with the new.

Personally I also disagree with the parry system because it relies on the timing of pressing your block key just before the enemy weapon is going to hit you. This currently doesn’t work because of de-sync issues with the game. So the visual of where you see your enemy’s weapon is usually never in sync with when you will be hit. I am not talking about high ping play or anything, I’m talking about when you wait for a swing to be about to hit you (so you don’t get feinted, which doesn’t work anyway) and then you get hit slightly before the visual is about to hit you. Sometimes it is after as well. There isn’t consistency. If you try playing with the bots for a bit (testing block with them and such), you’ll notice that there aren’t these sync issues and things are quite a bit different without latency.

As this is a strictly online game currently, things should be done to cater to online play when it comes to mechanics. So in my opinion it would be more beneficial if all blocks could be held down and you just had to be more precise in aiming (having a smaller block box). The problem there is the animations of many weapons are currently not relative at all to the invisible block box.

If some block animations could be changed to actually cover your body (rather than holding the weapon in the air like a magic forcefield wand) and then place the block/parry boxes inside the weapon then the game has gotten much better. People can believe in what they see more and new players wouldn’t have to make guesses on where their invisible block/parry box is. Much more intuitive.

I think many missed a point that if the game had more mechanics introduced to make the combat more difficult then you wouldn’t need guess work feints to make it so its possible for people to die quickly. All players would be engaged in a juggle of thoughts on multiple things.

Also want to say, melee duels didn’t usually last as long as you see in that video. That video is just cutting out the quick 2 second duels most likely. It was common to make a bad mistake at the start and die extremely quick whether at high level or low level play.

My point here being that more complex mechanics doesn’t equate to dreadfully long fights at all. Often it leads to extremely quick fights when its highly skilled player vs a not so good player.

There should be a melee combat revamp patch.

The parry system doesn’t work well for consistency with the game having latency issues, sync issues, feints forcing you to make guesses rather than react, swing dragging (which only is an issue with these other issues thrown in) and button que’ing such as if you press parry while you are in a parry, it will do another parry afterwards no matter what (even if you aren’t holding it, so you end up not having real time control over your character).

Without using a shield, among top players you never see a consistent winner since they both are feinting and it depends on who guesses right each time. This is causing the skill ceiling to be lower than it should be. You play man at arms and guessed wrong once? There goes your head.

Now, aside from that. In my opinion the melee combat isn’t even complex enough to keep interest too long. It gets stale pretty quickly. This differs a lot from a melee combat system such as seen in Movie Battles 2 mod for Jedi Academy which used coding from Open Jedi Project mod which was coded by RazorAce.

KdDBE8cuns4

Theres an example of what I speak of. All the bars and such at the bottom of the screen are relevant to melee combat and this is on the quake 3 engine so the graphics are obviously not amazing. These are just some average players, high end players could do much more.

All the graphic visuals are relevant to the combat as well. Such as every time you see a spark, that means a player could instantly go into a quick swing from it and it was caused by purposely making your weapons touch eachother.

The weapons actually did touch eachother and that is how blocking worked. 7 swing directions, 4 bars to manage while melee fighting (one for blocking, one for health, one for force power, one for attack power, itd be too much to explain each), a disarm function that required an opponent lets go of holding block while doing a swing and that you have extremely precise timing in pressing the rrequired buttons at the exact moment your weapons touch eachother. Like in chivalry you also had to aim at the weapon you are blocking, but unlike chivalry you had to do so in a manner that made the tip to middle of your weapon touch theirs. If it touched anywhere else, you lose some block bar and possibly some health. 3 different stances you could switch between on the fly that all had different speeds, reach and stance/swing animations. If you made your weapon touch the enemy while it was idle, you could then go directly into a combo with animations that look similar to a quick parry attack in chivalry. You could also interrupt swings but this was done by your swing coming from the opposite direction they swing and hitting their weapon. One mistake against a good player would equal death.

The melee combat also came into play every time you melee fought someone, even in the middle of a gunmen shooting at you. It wasn’t overshadowed at all. There was a slew of other things in there too that made it a mental juggle of reaction time, clever thinking, strategy and memory. If this was done on the crusty old quake 3 engine, I’m pretty sure something better can be done on Unreal 3 engine by seemingly more talented devs. Eventually a Chiv Melee Combat v2 Patch would be nice.

@Mike:

I guess I’m just old-fashioned, but I think the mods are TOO lenient. I believe threads should be locked as soon as a thread reaches its obvious peak, instead of letting these washed-up, past-their-prime threads spiral into this nonsense. For instance, this thread would be much better had it been locked after this gem of a post:
@Sir doyle the noob:

Those Vq buggers hacking again. They will never learn those buggers. The devs put secret codes in age of chivalry (the mod version fyi new peeps) which allowed them to gain advantages and alter stat variables for different classes. Hence why their Man at Arms acted manlier and their Crusaders had more vim.

Beware the Vq. |

mmm, perfection.

What you’re not seeing is that, that person is purposely trolling this thread so that it can be locked. They know they won’t face any repercussions since they are in said group. Notice how the other trolls in this thread are also from that same group. The current issue is that the moderators are also with said group of people, so they lock the threads that aren’t in their favor instead of actually just deleting or warning troll posters that are their friends.

@~X~:

Tibberius is in Vq, he just doesn’t wear the tags to avoid people claiming he is with them. He actually has stated this before on the forum, that he wouldn’t officially join Vq because it could upset some people to have a dev in that clan.

Though to my understanding, they often play together, using a voice chat application as well. Notice as well how many of the moderators are from their group of buddies. Kimiko and Slygoat are both Vq members.

Theres an obvious close association with the Vq clan and devs. You can even see in steam, that many have previous alias’ with Vq tags on if not currently using them.

Vq members and the leader of Vq gB told me that Tibberius is in Vq and that one of them is his brother. Doesn’t sound farfetched with how when you tell one of them something, they spread it between each other quickly.
(That same time, they also told me I was a loser because I paid 50 dollars for the game in beta and they had all been playing it free for 2 years.)

Also in the last QA video, it sounds like Tibberius is having the questions read to him by a little brother.

This is normal behavior from a niche game community though, so I never expected anything else.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/TibberiusBane

@JackBaldy:

Note: Click on the image for a bigger version

I agree with Retsnom and he actually has been the first person to reply to me and actually understand what I was saying rather than saying things like “why can’t he play in competitive play” or “so what if he is with old friends”. I never said he shouldn’t be either of those, I merely said the information I gave was reason for the current situation in the game pertaining the Vq buddy circle group running things.

I also didn’t even know this happened in AoC until Retsnom just stated what he did.

@Retsnom:

I got to jump in here before it is locked and or deleted. I being someone who is in full favor of the freedom of speech no matter how offensive has had many threads locked. Some were rage filled angst about all the failings of the game while others were heated debates with some flaming.

So Fn what? Big deal if a raging flame post thread goes viral it is more attention for the game. People will choose sides, rivalries and alliances will form and great in game battles will ensue. It seems retarded to close and lock threads because someone might be offended. Gees, sack up and grow a pair. Use you intelligence and language skills to put those in there place and let the people decide who has merit instead of locking a thread and do the thinking for people.

That said, Tibbs being tied to a very specific clan instead of a DEV clan has proven disastrous in the past because of the influence of one clan over the development of the Age of Chivalry Mod and the release of the CR2 patch that broke the mod, killed the community, all but two veteran clans left. Yes there were a few stragglers and a few minor new clans popped up. The single clan influenced updates to AOC, killed it. Kila clan warned back then about this and it fell on deaf ears as more and more of the game was nerfed or removed with each patch and update till they finally broke the mod. We were and have been shunned, flamed, ignored, and even had members banned from the old forums simply because we adamantly and openly disagreed with Development decisions that favored one clans opinion over all others. Not only that but of we were not invited to any of the Alpha or Beta testing nor did we get any invites to mod the forums or any input on the game development. Yet we were directly responsible for keeping AOC alive and growing for 3 years till this release.

It is clear that the same has happened here with Chivalry. One clan who has no problem stealing players from other clans…. how many former Kila players do you have now or from other clans? They clearly continue to have way too much influence in the development of the game. I have no problem with a Dev wanting to play at a competitive level with their own game but they should have created their own clan like they did in AOC with Dev-Blood Sacrifice clan, well till they got their ass handed to them time and time again with their own game by Kila, so bad that they nerfed 50% or more of the game, the maps, weapons and the tactics. Want to know more just ask me.

Many of you do not know the history to this game and there is lots too it. Lots of obviously hidden drama and behind the scenes deals and favors for wanted changes in the game. But they are there. So if you want to see a conflict of interest, it is staring you in the face.

One person has already tried to straw man at one of his statements while ignoring the bulk of what he said.