Oh, now I see. Yeah, by all means, let’s show we’re not TOTALLY jaded just yet.

TB, frankly, I don’t know what to do with you. You guys stumbled onto an amazing niche that had yet to be satisfyingly filled by games like WotR and Mount and Blade, and it was and still is pretty goddamn fantastic. Some of your logic is very understandable and easy to grasp, I.E. not responding to either side of the shitstorm your community raises regularly. Some, not so much, a la complete and utter radio silence regarding everything but MW balance. You managed to get lightning to strike twice already with MW and DW, all that remains is to see if you can keep the hits coming with good support. You’ve got a playerbase that’s happy to play, despite all their protests, and there’s no game that can fill the same role. You’ve got a chokehold on this genre, and all eyes are on you regarding it’s development. Show us what you’ve got, TB.

I get you. Frankly, aside from the random MW twats who come in to whine about how they still haven’t attained perfect asymmetric balance in a team game, I think the vast majority of people in here do care about DW on some level. At least enough to come on the forum and give thought out suggestions and feedback with something approaching regularity. Hell, if I didn’t care, I wouldn’t be upset with the terrible management. I’d just let the game go and do something semi-productive with my time. The game’s got huge potential, but so far that’s all it’s got. :/

It’s hard to just say that you like the game when you’re staring so many unacknowledged problems in the face, is what I’m saying.

I envy your optimism.

You’re really underestimating the extent to which some people are interested in shit. What I find interesting is how damn near all of them pick a favorite and then defend them to the hilt when it comes to discussions on the internet. Altroll is pretty clearly in the SPQR camp, Japanaboos are a dime a dozen, plenty of people fantasize about Spartans, it never really ends. Interesting stuff.

I won’t claim I was any kind of elite, but I beta tested DW as well (literally recruited straight out of a fucking pub) and it seemed like they just kind of did what was obvious, and ignored everything else. They toned down the insanity that was Samurai at the time, and then just kind of fell off the face of the earth. Even then, that was post-release. I just really have no idea what the hell they’re doing, and they don’t seem too keen on sharing that info with the general public outside of “We’re trying to fix MW first.”

Don’t sit and declare shit if you’re not at least willing to discuss your opinions. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

See, it’s statements like this,

But nope, instead they made a game where spamming LMB is the most successful form of attack.

that make it difficult for me to muster much respect for MW players that argue the futility of DW. I’m not half stupid enough to delude myself into thinking that DW WASN’T futile and ultimately worth sweet fuck all, but making blanket statements like this is just outright wrong. If anything, stab was made most effective by DW’s enhanced speed, as you can’t do shit to block a fast stab from a fast weapon that’s being dragged slightly. All the drag nerf did was make it so that you couldn’t get the longest, heaviest weapon available and infini-drag to victory the way you could in MW at the time of DW’s release. Hell, the entire reason I tested the DW beta was because I like the idea of NOT being able to go into a MW pub and wreck the shit out of everyone by taking a zwei and spinning.

The speed increase is stupid because it made LMB’s the most effective form of attack. The weapon variation is cool, but it’s a nightmare to balance. (viking spear, spartan, etc.) The removal of a specialized range class is fine, I actually like that. The drag “balance” was a drag nerf. It nerfed drags FFS. Such casual. It wasn’t some silly side project wtf. New models, maps, animations, voices, mechanics, yes I’m sure it only took a few weeks.

The weapon variation was a fucking godsend after having played MW for several months, and which at the time had recently gotten a balance patch that made MAA completely insane. Combine this with plenty of players getting fed up with the archers that had finally figured out that they could be completely unopposed in your average TDM or TO game, and suddenly, everyone’s at least willing to give the new game a shot. Hell, I was a massive opponent of the whole game until I played it. The weapon balance was pretty good after the post-release patch which took samurai down to reasonable levels. Hell, DW still has the most balanced duels I’ve ever seen, with each class being able to hold it’s own assuming similar skill. Only a select few things were broken, and what was was fantastically broken (viking spear, spartan shield, etc) The weapon balance wasn’t easy, but they nearly nailed it after the first balance patch.

Yes the LMB meta, very high-skill.

I can make inane statements about video game combat too! “Yes, the turn-your-sensitivity-up-and-masturbate-while-you-click meta, very high-skill.” Look, you’ve made several very good points which I agree with, but this is utter BS. It’s not hard to win by mashing lmb as a scrub in MW either, but shockingly, people learn to block this as they improve in DW too! The skill ceiling definitely lost some height with the drag nerf, but you didn’t have people hitting each other with swings that passed through the character’s own back anywhere near as often either. Not to mention the depth the game gained when every class was given a ranged weapon to effectively skirmish with, which opened up a whole new avenue of combat which had been completely and totally unexplored by MW due to the ranged class being the only one who had ranged weaponry outside cheap throwables.

I liked all this, DW on its own isn’t a bad game. But the players who were alpha testing it, (best players in MW) said that it had potential to be great but TB ignored their feedback and made changes without their consent. This is why we’ve got this LMB meta now that has an extremely low skill-ceiling. Any MW player could go into DW and wreck everyone. It was boring and shallow.

Couldn’t agree more with the alpha comments and TB’s complete and utter lack of response. MW players, when playing DW tend to try to drag, realize it doesn’t do anywhere near as much damage, get killed repeatedly, and then leave after shouting that the game was bullshit and everyone in the room was unskilled. You’d get the rare one who’d stick around and get disgustingly good, (a la Irish Canadian) but for the most part, they’d find something foreign and difficult, decided they’d rather stick to their comfort zone, and then leave after saying nasty things. Hardly atypical of your average person, but I really, really don’t think you’ve got much to back up your declaration of superiority there. The skillsets don’t overlap much past level 30, on either side.

So what every single multiplayer game on the planet is “stagnant” because the entire game isn’t changed in every patch?

It’s stagnant when the game literally cannot improve or expand in any meaningful way. This isn’t always a bad thing, looking at things like CS;GO and TF2, but C:MW is nowhere near that point, can never approach it due to the class system that makes it work as well and satisfyingly as it does, and as such is left in a rather unpleasant position for anyone who wants to see the game flourish and flesh out a fairly empty genre.

You’re theory-crafting right now. You’re saying that DW>MW because MW “lacks the ability to evolve, change, or grow…”? What the fuck are you even talking about? I think with the over 20 patches it’s changed a lot since release.

Having played since a few weeks after release, I agree completely with you. MW has changed loads since release, and mostly for the better in my opinion. What I’m talking about with DW is that because it never balanced itself around teamplay with 4 relatively straightforward classes, it has the ability to incorporate more classes and playstyles than MW ever can. In addition, because it was always balanced on a class by class basis, attempting to make them all equal through asymmetrical balance, instead of focusing on how they would perform in a team setting, you end up with a game that is by and large more flexible with it’s game mode options, and allows for far more variety in terms of tactics, map design, and objectives.

DW took months of development time away from MW and it’s not even a good game. It’s dead. All that effort and all the time is down the shitter to the detriment of MW which is their main game.

MW has gotten years of development at this point, and while having changed for the better, core combat hasn’t improved by any wide margin, no objectives have gotten any more interesting or in depth than “Stand here and hope you have a decent team”, and has no prospects for any further improvement or development outside further balancing, maybe a few more weapons, and ever more maps.

My problem isn’t with MW. MW is a fine game, and an amazing success for a first-time studio. My problem is that when the devs took aside six months to work on a game that GOD FORBID, might improve on the original formula, or at least allow for some variety for people who want more Chivalry but don’t like throwing themselves into a meat grinder round after round, or playing with a competitive community that can’t decide what’s cheap and what’s skillful. It seems to me a terrible waste that the devs are more than happy to keep pumping out skin after skin and map after map for a game that can never get better, while ignoring their second game to the extent of refusing to acknowledge the existence of UI breaking bugs.

See, this is what I don’t get about MW players who go out of their way to piss on DW. What the hell do you actually think is the difference between MW and DW’s development cycles? It’s pretty clear that the devs have a favorite child, but what I never can understand about you guys is this apparent sense of superiority. Maybe I’m just reading between lines that aren’t there, but it really confuses the crap out of me. You guys sit here and talk like DW stagnating is doing MW any favors. The team is still just as tiny, just as slow, and just as unwilling to answer any meaningful questions, but because they focus on YOUR game, suddenly it doesn’t bother you that yours is in just as bad a situation?

Hell, at least DW showed examples of mechanics that could possibly change the combat for the better. The speed increase, the weapon variation, the elimination of range specialization, the drag balance, all of it was just to see what happened with a silly little project they picked up from Spike. The larger maps, the variation in combat focus, the change to how fights formed, the increased worth of singular combatants, all of it was just an experiment. Obviously, it failed. All the same, you guys completely forget that where DW had the advantage of being able to introduce new concepts, ideas, and possibly even classes, MW is, by design, trapped within it’s own little four class system forever. Say what you like about the overpowered weapons, the ignored class specialties, and the lack of a team objective. Nobody will argue with you. But for god’s sake, don’t act like new maps and skins are going to help MW any. Much as you like to point and laugh at DW being put in the corner, MW is absolutely stagnant due to the very fact that if you attempt to change the class system at all, the entire paradigm falls apart. Add in the fact that archers have just as much as an advantage in game as they did in real life (I.E. being able to hit people who have no possible way to retaliate,) and you’re left with a game that lacks the ability to evolve, change, or grow in any meaningful respect. It’s still a good game, and from an objective standpoint, almost outright better than DW. But that doesn’t change the fact that unless Chivalry 2 comes out, you guys are in the exact same boat.

Maybe the devs really do have every reason to move at the pace of a crippled snail. For all I know, they’re working on three different projects at once, which will all be so great as to end all wars, world hunger, and cause every human to experience unparalleled throes of ecstasy from the act of growing a single flower. Maybe they’re just lazy bastards. I really don’t know, and with what little contact I’ve had with them, both answers seem equally likely at this point. The end result however, is the same. Where DW had the possibility and advantage of innovation, MW has dev support and a competitive scene to rival that of Age of Empires. Neither side gains anything of any immediate value, and both sides suffer for lack of continued interest. So why do you feel it necessary to assert your dominance as the winner of a contest nobody else entered? You’re not beating a dead horse, you’re desecrating an unmarked grave.

The Colosseum and Colosei Mortis are U.S. servers that are usually fairly active around primetime, and are where the majority of the better N/A players seem to spend much of their time. There’s also several tdm servers that are usually fairly populated around the same time. Definitely playable.

As one of the few people who like DW better than MW from the start (mostly due to the skill ceiling still being high while getting rid of a dedicated archer class and infini-drags), a small part of me likes to think that maybe, just maybe, the devs may eventually come back. I know that even if they did, though, there wouldn’t be much to save. Maybe a steam sale or 30 could save it, granted it got some much needed TO or at least a new map.

This silly arcadey thing is responsible for some 350+ hours of my life, and I wouldn’t trade a single one, but goddamn if it isn’t a tragedy. I put this right up with T:A in terms of “What could’ve been.”